As some of you know, I’ll be moving to Maine this summer. One definite benefit is that after almost two decades of living in climates (and houses) not conducive to a passive cellar (LA and now Miami), I’ve finally bought a house where I can build one without any major construction.
Basically, I plan to follow Richard Gold’s advice from his book How and Why To Build a Wine Cellar, as it seems pretty sensible. Has anyone built a passive cellar recently? Any advice on the process? Any input is appreciated. Thanks!
Oh, and, of course, I hope to meet the NE Berserkers soon. If anyone is ever in Central Maine…
Oh, almost forgot, the basic plan is to use a section of the unfinished portion of the basement (near the oil storage tanks but not too close to the furnace), with outer wall dimensions of about 15’x15’. Two interior walls will need to be erected. Two concrete corner walls exist, one external to the house, the other separating the space from the finished section of the basement. The top 2-3 feet of the external wall is above grade (the remainder below grade…it is on a slight slope).
My idea is to build the walls with extra-deep studs to accommodate R60 or R90 insulation on all four walls and drop the ceiling a few inches to upgrade to R90 there. I’d also build a door with R60 insulation. Vapor barrier all around (on the outside of the insulation). Probably gypsum drywall on the interior (don’t know much about this)? The foundation floor is 6-7 feet below grade (at the shallow end…closer 9 feet at the other end), so I’m hoping this would work to keep the cellar at a good temperature. I’ll drop electricity in two of the walls but doubt I’ll bother with plumbing.
That’s the gist of it, anyway. This will be the first wine cellar I’ve built. Any thoughts?
I have a passive cellar. You do get the long slow seasonal fluctuations as opposed to 55 constant. I guess I have a few quick tidbits…First; insulation and a good vapor barrier is even more important with passive. You want to minimize the amount of wall space that is interior wall or exposed to air. Earth is your friend. I’ve seen problems with passive cellars that run lengthwise along a interior wall. Lastly, make it at least twice as big as you think you need.
I read your follow up post Frank. I’m wondering if you might just want to add a cooling unit or at least plan for the potential addition. I’m just worried that you have too little of the wall space in contact with cool earth. I have probably 75% of my cellar walls underground and my cellar fluctuates about as much as I’m comfortable with.
I’m really hoping to keep it passive if possible. It’s less an issue of expense than a preference for very slow temperature changes. Even the better cooling units I’ve looked it allow noticeable fluctuations.
Certainly, I’d be willing to up the insulation (+4" Thermax?) and even retrofit the exterior wall with exterior insulation to a few feet and add a horizontal skirt, if that would help.
It might not be feasible, but I’d like to take advantage of the fairly cool and steady soil temperature at 6’+ depth in central Maine. The logic (possibly flawed) is that if I can insulate all of the walls (internal and external) sufficiently, then the foundation floor become my temperature regulator. ???
Frank:I’d love to have a passive cellar. That is my dream. No worries about cooling units (my WhisperKool of 9 years finally broke down, and I am going to buy a replacement, fix the old one and use it as a back-up) is the way to go. I don’t have personal experience with this, but your description, plus living in Maine, should make it OK. I hope it works for you. As long as your max summertime temp is 65 or less, you’ll have nothign to worry about.
I have a passive cellar and used Gold’s book. I do have a house AC unit that I can remove insulation and get to in the cellar. When I do, the cellar tops out in the summer around 58 to 60. Last summer, my AC went out for a weekend. The outside temps got up in the mis 90’s. House was very warm. The cellar got up to the 64 at the top and 61 at the bottom. I experimented with a fan, on the ground, blowing, and the cellar was a constant 62. I am pretty comfortable with it.
I built a passive cellar in our current house. Also used Gold’s book. All interior walls in the unfinished part of our basement. Double studded out each wall to leave 12" between for insulation. Dropped the ceiling as well to add more insulation. Installed ceramic tile over the concrete. Tempature fluctuates over the course of the year very slowly with a range of 58 to 62, which I am comfortable with.
The biggest benefit is being able to be away for periods of time and not having to worry about cooling unit problems.
John, thanks! Sounds great. What is the benefit of the ceramic tile over the concrete? Is it just cosmetic or does it provide some temperature/humidity advantages?
For me, it was purely cosmetic…and ended up being the second biggest expense. Found some tile on close out that looks like it has red wine stains marbled all through out. Ordered and assembled redwood racking from Rosehill. That allowed me to tailor the racking to the space. Overall a decent look for not slot of money.
Do not make assumptions about your actual temp/humidity variations (or what shows up on your occasional visits to the cellar). Monitor temp. changes at least with a Min/Max thermometer (If you have a spare laptop for the cellar, there are USB plug-ins that will record temps continuously and software to graph the results).
I had a friend in ‘cool’ San Francisco with a passive cellar. All his whites were shot and his reds tasted old and tired.
I would very strongly recommend that you get in touch with Dan Kravitz, wine importer and man behind Hand Picked Selections and a Maine resident. I’m sure he can give you plenty of ‘local’ tips. He was very active on the Squires board, it would be great to have him more active here!
I guess I have a passive cellar. It’s a basement and I live in Connecticut. Racks against the concrete walls. We’ve lived here 17 years and I have collected for most of that. I’ve never opened a bottle from the cellar that my reaction was even remotely “this could have benefited from better storage.” I have a window unit AC that I may use any time over a period of the three hottest months of the year - but there have been years that I haven’t run it at all. About 5 years ago I bought a wine-fridge for “the good stuff” - a just in case thing, but I finally decided to just use it to keep the whites cold.
(I only put in the AC after about five years, when I put in French gutters and a floor. That probably added a few degrees to the temp when it warmed up. But the walls basically remain bare and cool.)
Paul, you are correct to suggest that Frank should monitor the cellar for (1-2 years at least IMO) to get data on seasonal changes but Maine is definitely not the Bay Area and I don’t think his wines will cook even with some careless handling short of stacking them next to the furnace.
John, you are on the pretty close to the shore, how does your humidity hold in the summer? I would think it probably gets up there during some of the heat waves.
Aother passive cellar here. I mostly followed Gold’s ideas. The room is in the basement, 14 foot depth and mostly underground. Temperature varies 55 to 65 through the year. Never pulled out a bottle damaged by storage conditions. My only real problem is too much humidity in early spring when it rains more around here. I have put in a portable dehumidifier to keep the RH less then 80% for the 2 to 3 months it goes up. It drops to about 60 in the winter.
I’ve been very happy with the metal wire shelving I use for holding bottles and crates. Just put a dimmer switch in for the overhead lights so I can keep the room dark and mysterious while I root around for bottles.
One self-delusion - I figure my wines now age based on my local conditions, making them a bit of a “local” product.
We had a 2 or 3 Richter brief earth quake here a few years ago. I haven’t gotten around to addressing that risk yet.
I am not sure about ceramic tile. We left concrete to get the most cooling from the earth. I guess though if it is not an issue with temps, it would look better. I have considered the rubber mats with holes in them, in case of dropped bottles, but have not gone that direction year.
I used IKEA bottle racks for shelving and they work just fine. They look good IMO.
R-Value, there is a point of no return and I think your #'s are aggressive, Insulation doesn’t stop the transfer of heat it just slows it down. Also Building walls thick enough to hold greater that r-30 isn’t practical. If 6" walls with r-19 don’t suffice I wouldn’t do passive.
Heat sources…I’ve seen many potentially great locations for passive cellars made unfeasible due to boilers, furnaces, southern facing walls. Old steam boilers are the worst. I’ve been in many cellars that we’re hotter in december than august.
Flooring, I’d suggest doing a tile floor, concrete is very porous (dusty too) it will help keep the humidity more consistent and allow you to have better control. Plus it looks good and is relatively inexpensive. Effectively R-0.
Cooling, I’d plan on having the ability to add cooling, hopefully you won’t need it but if you plan ahead it will be easy if you do.
Doors are hard to build, do yourself a favor and buy an off the shelf exterior door with good weatherstripping it will save tons of aggravation.
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