im not dismissing anyone’s struggles. i thought i made a simple point, let me clarify;
relatively speaking, napa grape growers as a whole have done pretty well for themselves in the last 30 years. that’s not really disputable. if there is another ag group who has done better in the same period in this country, i’d love to hear who.
3 Likes
Pot farmers
3 Likes
I would venture to say farmers as a whole are not in it for the money but rather to make a living on their own land. That would include grape growers for the most part. Farming isn’t cheap, especially in Napa.
3 Likes
Well, except for the War on Drugs.
1 Like
Agreed. And grapes don’t have the same market dynamics (for better and worse) that most other ag commodities do, from futures markets to insurance.
Also, it depends on whether it’s Napa Valley or Napa County in terms of built-in demand.
Hayes,
Thanks of your perspective.
One area of interest for me is that a lot of the “copycat” discussion regarding luxury Napa wine projects centered on sourcing Beckstoffer fruit, and I’d be curious for your perspective here. Granted, part of that discussion involved sourcing the same fruit and hiring the same consulting winemaker (Melka, TRB, Bevan, etc) as numerous other projects … and while you do source some Beckstoffer fruit, that doesn’t describe MM or VV.
First, thinking about other producers, is it reasonable to expect that different labels will produce substantially different wine if they’re sourcing the same fruit and hiring the same winemaker as a product that’s not just already in the marketplace but multiple other products already in the marketplace?
Second, in order to hit the price point that you want/need to make your numbers work, did you feel compelled to source fruit from famous Beckstoffer vineyards? Or was it simply the best fruit available to you? I’m really curious about the decision making process when you launched the brand about how/where to source fruit if you don’t mind sharing how that decision was made.
6 Likes
This is really a great question. I believe (and that doesn’t mean anyone else has to believe it) that the story behind the brand can very much be just as important as the fruit sources. That said, when you start a new brand, it can be a strategy to source known fruit/winemakers in order to accomplish a couple things. First, a lot of collectors care about scores and known sites combined with known winemakers can help to get much better scores right off the bat. While some of you may scoff at this strategy, it is VERY difficult to sell wine as a new brand when there is nothing to put you on the map. Second, another strategy is to source one known site and do the rest of your bottles as unknown sites. The known site can help put you on the map and get the collector interested in your brand for the purpose of you showing them brand new sites you really believe in.
Point and case is Vida Valiente. We source Beckstoffer To Kalon in what was a new planting with reoriented rows that Sam Kaplan was very excited about. The wine crushes and got a 99 pt score in the first vintage. But the Vida estate wine was a walnut grove when we purchased the property. It is cortina soil, extremely rocky and super similar to Dr, Crane/Las Piedras in profile. We planted our favorite clones and on the 4th leaf made the 2021 Vida Estate wine. Would anyone have noticed the wine or trusted the source without the To Kalon to prove we were serious about quality? I have my opinion and we think it helps a ton. The Estate got 98 pts in its first ever bottling and is an amazing bottle of wine that we are so proud of. We also helped plant a brand new site in Coombsville that is called High Ranch Vineyard. It is a stunning site across from the judge vineyard, but once again no one has ever heard of it because we are the first to ever make wine from the site. Our plan at Vida Valiente is to create Grand Cru sites in Napa by finding the dirt we love and farming the clones we pick to perfection.
But to accomplish a dream you often have to be realistic on how to get your clients to the brand. This takes great wine, a good story, media attention, a ton of hard work, 6-8 YEARs of patience, and so much more. It is a risky gamble planting in new sites hoping for perfection and dealing with all that Mother Nature will throw your way. That said, I fucking love it. And if doing one bottle of Beckstoffer in the portfolio can help to accelerate the brand by 3-5x, I am all for it because it helps us put these brand new sites next to a grand cru site. Our bet is that we can put these new sites in a glass next to what most consider the best site and really compete. Takes guts, but we fucking love it.
On the subject of these grand cru sites getting chopped up between 20 vintners and whether they all taste the same, that is tough. When Memento Mori went into Dr. Crane we only source the Clone 6 fruit. I think it may be just Tor and us that have clone 6 blocks in Crane. So I would bet our Crane is substantially different. We do the same strategy in VHR. But at the price you need to pay for those amazing grapes, I think we are getting serious vintners in those sites. I have done a Crane tasting with Andy and 6 different vintners. I thought there was a ton a variation in flavor profiles. But they were all pretty damn great wines. Hope this gives some perspective.
11 Likes
On the comments above about farmers. The farmers in Napa these last couple years have definitely had to deal with some very difficult circumstances. I saw a few very callous comments above basically saying “tough luck cause times have been good before” and that is exactly the attitude I can’t stand. Not everyone has been in Napa for 30 years. Some people placed a bet on a dream of owning land in 2016/2017 and have had fires, massive heat spikes and all kinds of issues for the last decade. Many were just trying to find their footing. And the land prices in Napa are extreme so there isn’t a huge amount of room for error.
Wine sales for most in the last 24 months are down. Because of Mother Nature there have been a lot of cash flow issues for wineries in the last 4 years so many were forced to bail on grape contracts in the 2024 vintage. This was impossible for many farmers (who had done exactly as they promised) and left them holding the bag slashing prices trying to just cover their costs to no avail.
If you have ever run a company you know the hardest things to plan for are macro events you can’t control. Things like inflation and a recession combined natural disasters. I am not saying you can’t write a business plan that factors these things in. You can try. But I only do that now with my businesses because early in life I had a macro event destroy a company I had and put me on the brink of bankruptcy. Not everyone is ready to deal with these things and even if you are, you need some luck to make it through. So believe what you will, but the reckoning is underway for a ton of businesses in Napa and as consumers, if you love certain brands/sites, they could probably use some love in the next 12-24 months.
5 Likes
This isn’t meant as a “gotcha” or in a negative way, but you reference collectors and brands quite a bit. Is that what new winemakers in Napa are primarily focused on for the most part? I understand wine is a luxury and fine wine is even more of one, but it feels like this language points to “we want to be seen as luxurious and have people pay a lot for our wine” and sort of overrides “we want to make great wine and have people enjoy drinking it”, though I’m certain nobody would go through the trials and tribulations of winemaking if the latter weren’t also true.
3 Likes
Not sure I totally understand the question. The wine and the land and creating amazing vineyards that translate to incredible wine…that is the entire goal.
Clients, collectors, brand identity, market segmentation…if you want anyone to find you or have an chance of people drinking the wine, you have to give a lot of thought to all of that or you will fail. You can have idealist goals, as we all got into this to make amazing wine, but you need a business plan too. Just my opinion.
1 Like
I appreciate the original post and the detail about how and why it happens.
But I have a question:
Why Napa?
Today the dirt is probably as expensive as anything in Bordeaux. You know that climate risks are only going to get worse. The competition is hyper-intense, including from people who have been there for decades (if not a century), people who consider $10-30M for a tasting site as pocket change, and people who tick both of those boxes.
Is Napa Valley the best large vineyard area in the U.S.?
I don’t think there’s much argument there.
Does Cabernet make the best wine in the Napa Valley?
Ditto.
Are there places in the U.S. where you can grow very great Cabernet with an investment an order of magnitude smaller? I think so.
So how much does vanity enter into this? If the compulsion is to make great wine, why not look for other places with proven terroir, lowering both investment and risk.
I do not denigrate those who want to make great wine. After running a small import business for 23 years, at the tender age of 61, I bought a neglected 9 acre vineyard in France, from a region with no reputation for quality. 17 years later, I have 29 acres (most of the additional acreage new plantings). I joined a quality-oriented Cooperative winery which had already equipped a part of the cellar for artisanal winemaking.
Almost all of the ratings have been in the 90s, topping out at 95. With time, I believe a 100 pointer is possible here. My total investment has been in the low 6 figures. I don’t think that’s possible in the U.S., but outside of Napa I would say it could be done for the (very) low 7 figures.
12 Likes
Dan, you raise a good point. I think of some of the labels started by the newer crop of winemakers who are located in Napa, and they’re generally using fruit from well outside the Valley. I think of Newfound, Yeah!, Benevolent Neglect, folks like that who are situated in Napa proper. Or Massican, though he does use Hudson chard from Carneros, and I can’t recall if his SB comes from outside. Most of Enfield comes from outside.
1 Like
Plug for Dan’s wines—love ‘em.
Personally, if I came in to this today with a boatload of money from elsewhere to start a new brand, I’d focus on Santa Barbara County only. The region excels for a lot of grapes already (Syrah, PN and Chard) and I happen to think it’s a great Cabernet region as well - I think time will show that.
6 Likes
Jonata’s been making great Cab from SBC for quite a while now.
2 Likes
I am likely wrong, but it seems Napa wineries were kind of built bottom up in the past. People built up from farming the land, working in wineries, etc, and then making wine, etc.
Nowadays, there seems to be an extreme top down vibe where someone with “enthusiasm” and a crap load of money dives in and lands exactly on the 200 dollar plus side of things. As a general trend.
There are obviously exceptions to this. I can remember when Spottswoode was 30 bucks and now it’s 285 dollars.
Spontaneous tasting has become a thing of the past, for the most part.
It’s becoming a Yogi Berra experience: Nobody goes there because it’s so crowded and expensive. 
Are Chiles Valley and Pope Valley gaining traction?
5 Likes
if anyone loves certain ‘brands or sites’, i truly feel sorry for them.
im seriously over here laughing with the mention of a story. if i even smell any focus on a story with a wine i want to buy, i generally run the other way.
the story should be you make wine that fucking tastes good.
these types of assclown buyers don’t last. they’ll be drawn away to another ‘story’ after their 2nd or 3rd purchase.
5 Likes
So, anyone who ever pays attention to advertising, you’re better than them? That’s the logical conclusion of what you’re saying here.
Be kind.
1 Like
my learned friend- we both know that’s a stretch.
every human being pays attention to advertising & marketing.
but a new wine with a heavy focus on marketing is just something i dont want to be a part of.
financial resources are generally limited and expenditures are usually binary.
and im fine with supporting a winemaker’s future ex-wife, but i like a limit to marketing etc because to me that means more money for actual winemaking/better juice.
just my opinion.
1 Like
Is it though? You essentially said that you’re better than winedrinkers who buy wine based on a story. Every single wine brand tells a story.
For example, think about how much this board has talked about the MacDonald story - the history of the family and the land. Sure, it helps the wines are spectacular, but the story is wonderful and unique in this industry. And then WBers sign up for other wines that Graeme is starting to make without knowing the wine is good or not, just because of him, his brand, and his story.
Do you feel sorry for people who love the MacDonald brand and story?
1 Like