Building a new brand/winery in Napa

I have now been a part of building two brands in Napa Valley and have watched many others start their own over the years. I remember the first time I told a collector friend of mine that we were considering starting a winery (what became Memento Mori Winery) and he laughed. He said that would be like me deciding I wanted to start painting and expecting to create Picassos. He said there was no way we could make wines as good as the ones we loved drinking. I figured he was probably right; but having started many companies, I also knew that was the reaction almost everyone gives you when you say you are going to try and do something hard. They almost always shit on the idea and take the angle of “trying to protect you from the pain involved with failing and making a fool out of yourself.”

I see a lot of threads on WB around “Vanity Projects” and owners that are out over their skis trying to make wine. Maybe in some cases there are projects that are just vanity projects. But in my 18 years in Napa I haven’t met an owner focused on vanity yet. Most are just trying to survive. Many are people that have come from an industry they were successful in and they want to try to make something that really means something to them. Something that represents something they believe in. Many of the new brands are fledgling farmers or winemakers trying to create breathing room for their families. They have been growing and/or making wine for others for decades and are finally taking the jump (and risk) to put themselves out there in hopes of setting their families up financially.

As is true with most all new businesses, most of the new projects fail. But a failure in wine is especially painful. The reason is because it is so different than a traditional business where you put out a shingle and can immediately start selling. In wine, you need to grow the fruit. If you plant your own vineyard that means waiting 4 years for a harvest you can make wine from. Then after that long wait, you have almost three more years before you can sell anything. And god forbid in that seven year wait there is a pandemic, inflation, global uncertainty, glass shortages, or all the other potential hazards. So there they are in 2020 ready for their first harvest and there is a fire that wipes it out. Oh that’s right, Mother Nature and global warming were also factors they never needed to worry about in the other industries they came from before making wine.

But by 2021 they got a great growing season and finally have a bottle of wine to sell in late 2023. They are a couple million dollars into the project and everything cost more than they thought, but they didn’t do it thinking they would make money right away (cause wine is terrible for that). They did it because they wanted to move their families forward, or to put their passion on a bottle and give it a place in this world. And hopefully that release where this new wine no one has ever heard of went well! Hopefully the critics who usually are careful with unknown brands were kind to them. They need that since no one has been able to taste the wines because building a site for tastings will run $10-30M of which they don’t have.

They go home after the release and celebrate that they sold $80K worth of wine! They are millions in debt but the dream has been fulfilled and now that they have launched it and it is only up from here! Right?

Then they start hearing the the 22 vintage might get panned by critics the way 2011, 2017, and 2020 did. Combine that with a heavy harvest and your tonnage comes in twice as expensive as you were expecting. And fruit cost are all due in the fall two years before you can sell the wine. This happened in 2018 and blindsided everyone. It happened in 2023 as well. Not only were people not prepared for the cost of fruit, they also had no idea how they were going to pay the crush fees for double the cases.

It is a conundrum. I mean when something goes wrong, one of the last things you can do is look to the price of the wine. Pricing in wine is so sensitive. Problem number one? You can’t lower the price. You just can’t. People will feel that you screwed them in the previous vintages or that the wine is now a terrible investment going forward. One of the kiss of deaths in wine is for your wine to be discounted online. Those that think they can dump excess inventory online to try and raise cash to pay for harvest almost always see their Direct to consumer business fall apart. Problem two? If you raise the price to try and balance all the craziness in the market you will be labeled. You will be cocky, arrogant, or worse…a Vanity Project. This is why I launched Vida Valiente Winery at the prices I did. I hope to not need to change the price for a decade. Just start at a price that can hopefully keep you afloat after 8 years of investment and zero revenue.

lol. I am not complaining. I promise I am not. I am typing this all because I think the people on this site are really smart. I mean fuck, I thought I was too. Then I got into wine…and Mother Nature and hundreds of other problems punched me right in the face. Smart matters a little. Perseverance matters a lot more. I think you guys are smart on this site. So I wanted you to have perspective. Show some of the brands you loved at one point some grace. It is a SUPER hard business. Many will need your support and understanding to make it.

For those brave enough to enter the fray and make wine- take my free humble advice. If you are faint of heart, don’t get into wine. If you are really worried about what people think, don’t do wine. If you want to make money, don’t do wine.

Make wine because you love it. Make it for you. Brand it with a story that means something to you. Brand it in what you see as the best version of yourself, or the world, or something you love. If it does well in a good year celebrate it, for it is fleeting. If you lose a harvest or get panned by critics, raise a glass. Celebrate again that you are doing something hard and you are doing it because you love it.

I believe that if you do it this way there is a sliver of the market that will come with you on that beautiful wine journey. Or…they won’t. But we risk takers know that making everyone happy just isn’t something under our control. Just do it in a way you are proud of it.

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Great post–appreciate the insight and transparency.

I mean this respectfully–why can BDX fluctuate pricing annually based on quality/quantity/etc but Napa can’t?

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[quote=“Hayes_Drumwright”] They almost always shit on the idea and take the angle of “trying to protect you from the pain involved with failing and making a fool out of yourself.”
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I just wouldnt want my friend to lose their shirt. Failure doesnt a fool make.

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Hayes answered this already… you just can’t.
Right GIFs | Tenor

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I was going to ask the same question! I assume it’s based on the sales models (DTC in the US) and negotiants for BDX

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:rofl:

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I appreciate the POV, but I for sure know that if you come into wine with money, just like in life, you have a greater shot at getting there simply because you don’t go out of business trying to keep a roof over your family’s head. Being able to keep going at it “because you love it” only works if you’re rich. It doesn’t work for anyone else.

Put together a top 10 list of Napa wineries in order of pricing as a proxy of quality and I’ll show you 10 winery owners that came to it already financially independent.

Nothing wrong with that, but it does get a bit tiring at times when it goes:

“We went to this amazing winery in Paso Robles a few weeks back - tasting room was on top of a hill, looking out 360 degrees over the beautiful vineyards - have you been? Wine was amazing and beautiful grounds.”, “When are you going to get a tasting room? Or a vineyard? Wouldn’t Santa Barbara be a good spot for you?”

Yeah, it would.

But you don’t want to be a downer and tell people for the 59th time the reality that you probably need $500K-1M to be able to afford the rent on that property for a full year before the permits even come through…and that’s before you’ve done the interior redesign.

“I’m thinking about it. One day, hopefully” is all you can say. :woozy_face:

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Appreciate the post and perspective. Thanks.

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I appreciate this perspective. I can name Kosta Browne, MAXEM, and others that started with very little and have created amazing brands. You have to build case count very slowly, but it can be done. But in general, I hear ya.

As @Rohit_B said, Bordeaux says hi.

The reality is that those of us who enjoy Napa wines want to support the wineries and people we build relationships with when visiting and tasting.

The other side of that coin is our wine budgets and what we are comfortable paying for. The per bottle increase in Napa over the last 5+ years is extraordinary. I would say for myself it’s gotten uncomfortable as well.

Wineries I’ve supported for a decade have doubled, tripled or more their bottle pricing. Some, but not all of these wineries are estate owned. Why the large increases? It looks like they’re trying to keep the bottle price in line with neighboring wineries. It’s offputting to me as a customer to see these large increases year after year.

I can understand sourced fruit having higher associated costs and especially for vineyards that have been sold and need to reset pricing. We’ve had some great threads here detailing all of the costs.

Back to the quote, you can’t lower pricing or people feel screwed. What about those of us who’ve been loyal and feel screwed by the rapid price increases?

I can go find new release 2nd growth Bordeaux at respectable pricing EP basically every year. The value in Napa is shrinking annually for the consumer. People chase bottles because of FOMO instead of value.

When a small chunk of Napa cabs are now at or above Bordeaux first growths pricing, I have to change my buying habits.

I enjoy Napa cab greatly, but the per bottle costs have crossed a line I no longer am willing to pay. I likely have 6 figures of Napa cab, so I wouldn’t consider myself cheap or unwilling to pay.

The price increases have me buying more wine from Bordeaux, Tuscany, German Riesling and Aussie Shiraz. I’ve reallocated my spend to better align with the per bottle costs I feel comfortable at. I think this is what Napa has to be mindful of.

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Nicely put.

On the “vanity” point, I’m one of those who throws that term around on these threads. They do exist - I’ve met those folks in Napa. But I’ve definitely met more who are of the ilk you describe. I like the latter more :).

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All the smart people here know what it costs to produce bottle of wine. They tell us every time there is a price increase on one of their favorites that they can no longer afford. Whenever I called them out on it I was labeled a shill for the producer. Glad to see the truth explained way better from someone more believable.
:cheers:

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[Full disclosure: I grew a lot of wine for KB in the mid to late 'aughts, Gap’s Crown and a handful of other vineyards, and benefited greatly from the rise and success of KB. My wife later worked for KB but that was long after Michael, Dan and Chris were involved with the brand and they were on to their second and third brand owners.]

I think it’s important to point out that very few wine brands can start with very little and bootstrap their way to success these days (I presume success is an exit of some sort, open to other interpretations). Kosta Browne (KB), while they started out bootstrapping, actually had a number of investors who put up money to support their growth. I’m not bringing this up to discredit what Michael, Dan and Chris did, but to point out that their growth in the early to mid 'aughts likely wouldn’t have been possible without the financial support of their investors. When Chris came on board he put together an amazing business plan and secured financing that was crucial to the success of KB. I think this was all brilliant and it eventually led to their first sale (Sale of the winery/brand). Their success as a brand was in large part due to their sound financial position and wine business acumen.

What am I getting at? Almost any wine brand, let’s just say in the Napa Valley, is going to need more than ‘very little’ in terms of funding to grow and establish themselves. It’s why the old adage is ‘to make a small fortune in the wine business start out with a large one.’ Over the last few months I can’t count on my hands and feet alone the number of people I’ve spoken with that have either invested in a winery, taken investment as a winery or have a ‘rainy day’ fund that is larger than my retirement holdings because they’re concerned about an ‘off vintage’ for their brand. A winery is an incredibly capital intensive business and I’ve yet to see anyone reap the benefits without either putting up a significant amount of capital at the start or slowly growing over the course of three or four decades.

Perhaps we’re saying the same thing, I think that I am just hung up on the notion that one can start with very little and create an amazing brand these days.

Cheers,

Michael

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I think everyone who comes on here and champions their passion and reasoning behind their pricing models in Napa should take notes from Roy Piper. He manages to hold the line on his pricing /superior product and his justification is sound and reasonable. One of the main reasons his purchases are a no brainer for me. Besides that he’s a great all around guy… I was speaking with one of the partners at Switchback Ridge and a few distributors at a dinner a few weeks ago and she mentioned reckoning is coming for Napa prices whether they like it or not

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[/quote]
I was speaking with one of the partners at Switchback Ridge and a few distributors at a dinner a few weeks ago and she mentioned reckoning is coming for Napa prices whether they like it or not
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There is actually quite a big correction occuring in Napa and it has unfortunately been crushing the farmers. I beleive you right that it will eventually hit wineries.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/wine/article/grape-growers-prices-california-19771879.php

Hayes, how do you see this playing out then? I can see more and more wineries using discount sites to sell (sometimes they do this as “Mystery” wine to not tarnish brand), more wineries not making it and folding or selling. I love Napa wines and make up about 90% of my collection. I have been to MM even and hold it in high regard. Ive been listening to a lot of Napa related podcasts and they focus on the “Cult” wines such as Harlan, Screaming Eagle, etc. which I am sure are struggling too, but the fascinating thing to me is the hundreds of napa wineries that dont touch Harland/Screagle pricing, but are still $200+ a bottle. Tough business all around - for the owners/wineries, and for consumers.

99% of the farmers in the US would be thrilled to be crushed (bad pun) the way napa farmers are as described.

napa as always can use a higher dose of perspective.

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Crushed as in people cancelling contracts and fruit rotting because there are no customers? The struggle is real.

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Hayes thanks for sharing your perspective. I have little doubt that just about everyone that gets into the wine business (especially Napa) is doing it because they have huge passion for the project. Whether it’s the wine, the valley, the weather, the people, some idea of a lifestyle or a future version of themselves, anyone taking on a high risk, high effort project like starting a winery has some huge personal drive pushing them on.

But Napa is definitely getting into a weird place. A high end resort/destination (and becoming even more lux every year) in combination with being a serious agricultural region is really unusual. Where else in the world is even close? Bordeaux? I’ve never been but it seems unlikely. We all know that the inputs (land, equipment, labor, water, everything!) are becoming ever more expensive. And yet the wine business still has its ups and downs as we all know. And those variations drive the business in disruptive and unpredictable ways.

I figure that no matter what happens, even if there are multiple disastrous years in a row, owners of land will find buyers. Grapes will continue to be grown. Prices will adjust up and down. There will be incredible pain, but for those who are looking for that wine, it will still be made.

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