Bordeaux seeing a down turn like higher end Napa bottlings?

Got to thinking with 2023 Bordeaux futures hitting my inbox. For your Grand Cru and Grand Cru Classe A & B type wines of Bordeaux, I was wondering if they are seeing a downturn similar to Napa with their higher end wines?

If you buy such Bordeaux and have to hold on to them for 10+ years to have them flesh out a bit for all the wood and tannin to ease up, I’d venture to guess consumers willing to fork out that type of cash just to sit on the wine for a decade plus would be slowing down vs. years past. At the very least Napa wines are somewhat ready to consume out the gate with so much primary fruit showing upon release.

I know high end Napa bottlings are hurting a bit right now and that a good portion of the unsold wine is sold to the Asian and United Emirates market, but wondering if the same thing is happening with Bordeaux?

Yes. It’s happening everywhere.

I don’t think sales are just down in Napa. Seems to be a much larger issue.

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A major importer of high end wines in Norway just announced their first ever tasting of some previously allocated wines. That told me something.

On the list: Domaine de la Côte, Dauvissat, Wittmann, Schäfer-Fröhlich, Lilbert, Remy, Diel, Comando G, Telmo Rodriguez, Bürklin-Wolf, Rebholz, Sandrone, Isole e Olena + some more.

Sounds like a win to get more access to these wines. The only question is, will they taste as good as they did when you couldn’t get them? :wink:

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I am watching a minor house wine auction and prices for older Bordeaux (pre 2010) are still strong.

Weakness seems to be in the modern vintages

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I’m not a major auction player but there are a couple of auction sites where I actively chase 1980s Bordeaux. Competition is heavy and pricing is not going down, it’s steep. Same with some key later vintages as well, say 1990, 1996, 2000, etc.

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Finally, lol. For decades it was always, “Why buy current release when you can back fill for less?”

I made a point in the other 2023 Bordeaux thread is that wines of the last 20 years aren’t being consumed fast enough. Too much wine sitting around.

The vintages you are chasing already has a heavily depleted supply, and the 2023 thread is full of folks talking about backfilling instead of buying new.

Sign of the times.

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The drink now crowd wants to drink now. I actually saw some of this with Napa bottlings the past few years where auction prices jumped.

Could be that, and it could also be in part the recognition that this was such a classic era in Bordeaux and many of these wines, if well stored, are at absolute peak drinking.

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And that is just it. New releases are no where near peak drinking. I think once we as buyers realize we shouldn’t be buying EP anymore due to age, cellar capacity, etc; we can focus on back filling.

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Circling back to something I brought up. The $100+ Bordeaux bottlings require patience being it takes so long for the wines to be pleasurable. With the current state of our economy and globally, it appears even Bordeaux is feeling it, partly due to the maturation process of their wines.

One good result of global warming is perhaps $100+ Bordeaux bottlings will be accessible to drink upon or shortly after release like new world wines. Perhaps the days of investing on such wines won’t require a decade plus to drink or those searching at auction to buy, pop and pour older vintages.

So you are saying Latour made a wise bet to hold the wines back? :slight_smile:

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This is definitely not true. the 2016 Conseillante I had yesterday? Smashingly good - I didn’t want it to leave my mouth. The 2019 Lynch Bages I had last week? Same. They may be even more magical in another 15 years, sure, but it’s silly to say they’re not delivering pleasure. Of course not every wine and not every vintage are as accessible, but I don’t think Robert had any trouble deciding whether the 2019 DDC was pleasurable.

They already are, and it has less to do with global warming (and grape ripeness) and more to do with farming, winemaking, and elevage choices. WK has been talking about this for years now.

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Talbot 19 was impressive and delicious in January this year.

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Would make sense now that there is actual time value of money. Bordeaux futures unfortunately do not make sense given the current landscape.

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We were able to pick up a case of Dominus 2021 no problem this week. Normally, we have to like BEGGGG for it. High end wines are sitting it seems.

I would absolutely agree that the wines being made in Bordeaux from 2016 and forward seem to have much more approachability in their youth, along with not shutting down either.

Not true for all wines, but certainly many.

Those looking to drink young wines showing mature character- 2014. The last few I’ve had (Canon, Haut Bailly, Lynch Bages) show far more advanced than I would expect at age 10.

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It’s also $300+ per bottle now. Like seemingly everything else from Napa.

I’m sounding old, but I remember when it jumped to $200 a bottle and people were angry…and still bought it. (I think it was 2008 vintage)

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