Any hope for young, jammy Burgs?

I’ve recently had several red Burgs from good producers that were over-the-top with high alcohol (14%) and jammy fruit.

Now, I am no lover of austere, cerebral wines. I like me some fruit in the glass, but these were too much-no particular structure, vintage or “place-ness” detectable. (Talkin’ to you, 16’ and 18’ Mugnier Clos de Marechale, 18’ Le Moine Chambolle 1er Baudes, 19’ Sigaut Morey 1er Millandes) To paraphrase a cogent CellarTracker comment “tastes like a hot mess of Merlot-dominant something-or-other.” Some of this is vintage, and some is the hand of the winemaker sure, but still…

My question is this: “Is there any reasonable hope that with time, these jam bombs are going to dry out/grow up, shed some baby fat and reveal some tannin/acid or at least become tasty/recognizable as Burgundy?” Is this a stage that big-ass young Burgs wines go through?

I know that with time puckering tannins will mellow, acid will balance fruit, leather and earth can emerge but…from jam? From something apparently lacking in balancing acid and tannin?

If this is what climate change bodes for Burgundy, it ain’t good.


I can take those Marechales off your hands at an attractive price.

Don’t know about these particular wines, but the first bottle of 1985 Clos de la Bousse d’Or i drank i found disgusting and tasting of red jujubes and tutti-fruiti. The wine was probably about four years old.

Bottles consumed much later were much better and I loved them.


Yep, plenty of hope but you have to wait for 10-20 years. Many people complained that the ‘09’s were jammy. Now they’re jammin’. And I hope you like jammin’, too.


I have had some wonderful 2003s over the past few years. If that vintage can settle down, any vintage can. I have not had any 2018s, but think that the 2016s I have tasted (not Mugnier) can be quite nice.


Jeremy beat me to it. 2009 took a lot of criticism early on for being too ripe and fruity from many burg lovers, now the wines are fantastic and still on an upward trajectory. I reckon a lot of 209s will be amazing from 2029 onwards.

And as Howard says if 2003s can come around so there are plenty of examples in history to be optimistic the 2018s will do the same.

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Thank you Brodie- I actually loved that 16’ Mugnier initially, but now 3 years in it is getting thick. Hopefully time will help it.

Glad to hear it. Thank you all- I loved the 16’ Mugnier on release, but now 3 years in it is getting thick. Hopefully time will help it. I am a fan of Le Moine style and found 19’ to be a decent veitage, so was surprised by that Sigaut.

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For me, I have found that the keys in young Burgs are (1) clean pure fruit, (2) long finish and (3) good acidity. If you have all of those in a wine, my guess is the wine will age pretty well.

It is not unusual for Burgs to pick up weight a year or two after bottling. It has caused me to totally reassess vintages like 1980, 1991, 2000, 2001, 2007 and 2017, which I initially found to be too light and thin.

For me, I like Mugnier wines but am not really a fan of Le Moine.

This one’s for Jeremy:
‘Cos everyday we pay the price with a little sacrifice
Jammin’ till the jam is through

Flavor is not a flaw.

I am with Brodie here re Jereme beat us to it…+ 2.

I love 2009 red …now and more… flirtysmile

I will be opening 2017 red more than 2018…for the next few years.

No need to worry. Past rather than present performance is the guide to follow.

To this same point I had an 03 Jadot Mazis from magnum on xmas that was drinking really well. So there is plenty of hope.


I love the Jadot – Beaune Greves 03 (1239-6727 $ 61) …and still have a bottle left.

… sounds like what I said a few years ago … also reg. 2003 …

(what’s in the bottle will come out someday)

There are many ways to enjoy red burgundy…for example : jammy vs softy = pairing the exactly the same wine from vintage 2009 vs 2007.

How about many years from now : 2018 vs 2017.

“Ripe fruit is not necessarily a flaw.”

Hey, copyright violation here! Any lawyers on this board?

Anyway, yes there is hope for young, jammy Burgs. But they’re still not something I’ll go out of my way to seek out.

I remember the 2009s which I disliked on release but firmed up beautifully after a year or so in bottle.

But that criticism was also wrong at the time it was made, not merely in retrospect [cheers.gif]