A Shock: Fourrier Bourgogne preferred to a Grand Cru.

Pre Christmas dinner, and very unscientific. Almost everyone there likes wine, but no geeks.

The wines a solid but unremarkable Jadot Charmes Chambertin 1996 and a Fourrier 2014 Bourgogne.
This was charming, great fruit and spice, open and just lovely. Definitely the better wine today, and I don’t have a sense that the Charmes will get any better. Preferred by geek and non geek alike.

I’ve never had a Jadot Charmes Chambertin that rose above average. Still, fun result here!
Fourrier sounds great. Cheers, Mark, and Merry Christmas.

That Fourrier bourgogne is good.

Never had any Fourrier Bourgogne, now I am curious.

That’s the reason why Fourrier wines accounted for both largest consumption and purchase for me over the last few years. EP Allocations are getting tougher and tougher.

I drank a case of the 2014 Bourgogne Rouge. It was just as good as the Gevrey VV 2014.

Mark, you could have made a movie out of the tasting!

Had a 2006 Ghislaine Barthod Bourgogne Rouge Les Bons Batons with Christmas dinner last night (aka leftovers from Christmas eve dinner). It was excellent and it took the place of and, obviously, towered over a brett-laden 2006 Chambolle-Musigny.

I had the 2015 Fourrier Bourgogne this week. It’s a wine of substance. I look forward to trying it again in five or so years.

Anyone tried both the domaine and negociant versions of the Fourrier rouge? I see both in market.

It happens, a big name house and a named vineyard gets beaten by the “everyday, everyplace” wine. Many years ago I had a bottle from a well known Sonoma winery- a LOT 2… and it was better tasting than the special selection named after a famous writer. That was 2x $.

I am going to open the 2015 tomorrow, will report.

i really enjoyed the 15 on release. there were some negative notes on it but my experience did not mirror those. definitely a ripe burgundy but a lot of fun to drink, super expressive and great value. also, i was unaware there was a negoce version.

I’ve never had a Jadot where I’ve said ‘Wow!!’. Had a lot though where I said ‘Eh…’

Fourrier is usually delicious, sometimes spectacular.


How many vintages of Jadot Ursules have you had, and at what age? I agree, I haven’t had many Jadot 'wow’s, but this bottling has produced most of them… along with a '47 Beaune ‘Avaux’ in the 70s.

Dan Kravitz

I’ve generally had the same experience. I opened a 96 Clos de la Roche and a 98 Clos St. Denis for my birthday last month and both disappointed.
I’m a big Fourrier fan, so this doesn’t actually surprise me.

There are some very good Jadot 1996s, and I have had lovely bottles of Beze, CSJ and Bonnes Mares. But this Charmes was drinkable, if blah. The Fourrier was just a joy to drink.

Hey Dan. That’s fair. I’ve generally had the Beze, Bonnes Mares, Amoureuses, CSJ. And nothing older than say 1990. Some have been quite good, but none at the ‘wow’ level. Whenever I’ve had the other 1ers or GC’s, also with similar age, I just haven’t had much ‘really good’ at all. Maybe they just need a lot more age. I’d hope that at 20 years, you’d start to see something!

I do like Jadot’s Ursules too, though you do have to leave 'em a while. Also have enjoyed bottlings of their Clos de la Barre in good vintages.

I have been fortunate to have had several grand crus this past year. The 2012 Coche Bourgogne topped all of them and is probably my #5 WOTY this year.

Thanks for the note, Mark, all the best for 2019


Peter, if you want a Jadot ‘wow’, try a 1990 Ursules right now. I last had it about a year ago and it was great wine… a term I don’t use lightly.

I’ve got both a '99 Ursules and a '99 Jadot Romanee St Vivant in the basement. You just gave me an idea… open them together next year (or a few years down the road). Grand Cru Cotes du Nuits or Premier Cru Cotes de Beaune… my guess is the Ursules will be the better wine.

Dan Kravitz

I know you did not plan it to be so Mark, but on reflection this is a really fascinating pairing- one worthy of reflection and discussion.

For my part, I do not care for Fourrier- but I certainly find the wines very tasty. I put them in the same mental bucket as Claude Dugat- incredibly good underlying material and fruit expression, but too much extraction and too much wood for my tastes. “Too many notes” for fellow Amadeus fans :slight_smile:

That said, back when it was available I bought all the Claude Dugat Bourgogne I could. Loved the stuff, and loved giving it as gifts. Like Bertrand Ambroise Bourgogne Rouge, it was the holiday gift that could never go wrong. And I personally enjoyed drinking it at casual events like BBQs or just a glass in the evening to relax. If I did not already have other things filling that role today, I could see myself being similarly enthusiastic about Fourrier’s Bourgogne (if not the price, I got Dugat’s Bourgogne for $25 “back in the day”- but Dugat doesn’t come that cheap anymore either.)

Charmes-Chambertin, and the Jadot version in particular, is a whole other animal. I have a soft spot in my heart for Charmes-Chambertin, especially the Drouhin and Roumier versions. Rousseau and Jadot are a close second. While it is reputed to be the earliest maturing Gevrey grand cru- I like to give it a lot of time to fully flesh out its nuances and aromatics as the body of the wine itself is a very small part of its greatness. And the Jadot and Rousseau versions need that time most of all.

And even then, it is still something of a subdued wine. One of the best Charmes I have ever had is the magnificent 2001 Roumier- and I bet if I served that blind today alongside a Fourrier or Dugat Bourgogne from a ripe and accessible vintage that the Bourgogne would likely get more votes in a standalone comparison. But with a nice piece of game meat and a rich sauce- the Charmes would win the day, providing a properly nuanced and understated accompaniment.

The terroirist in me would say the Charmes, provided it is a well-made example, is inherently superior to any Bourgogne- but for all practical purposes, the question of which one to actually buy and drink is are you going to cellar it and eventually serve it solo with a carefully matched dish or pop and pour on demand in a “wine tasting” setting- the latter of which is the far more popular option for enjoying high end wine these days.

As for the general comments about Jadot- while I can see where some might find them boring, I would also say that the wines are often opened far too young. Jadot has its share of wow wines- Clos St. Denis most of all for me- but even there I have yet to try an example I thought was fully mature since they only started annually making wine from the Gagey holdings in 1993. The Bonnes-Mares can be great too, but that one needs even more time than Roumier. Beaune Ursules is probably the most accessible of the greats at a young age- but even then the wine tends to be austere. 2002 is the only Ursules I have ever tasted at release which gave a really good and open insight into just how great it would be in time. At release, that wine would have made a believer out of just about anyone with any love for Burgundy.