With 8 GJE members, we plan to initiate a new way of tasting at this famous restaurant in Tampa.
First step : we choose a 3 course dinner and for each course, we select with the sommelier 6 wines.
Then, before each course, the sommelier serves 4 wines inside the selection done. So, we are not knowing exactly which ones he has selected. We taste the wines blind, we put comments and scores as we do at any GJE session. Silent, no discussion. I collect the data sheets.
Second step : the course is served and then, I do ask to each taster to score and comment again each wine in its wedding with the food. Discussions will be allowed. Then, I will collect the new data.
Third step : we compare the results : wines as such, and wines on the food. Different ranking ?
Someone has already done this kind of experience ?
Why such a funny tasting ? Well, if we remember that a wine is done to be drunk at table with selected food, we may assume that the characteristics of any wine may be different and will bring different results. Maybe not. We will see.
My problem is that I often find that I enjoy a wine less if I am engaged in a guessing game. I find blind tasting, especially single blind, interesting, humbling and very educational. But when I am sitting down at a meal I usually just want to enjoy what is in front of me.
You didn’t come all the way from the west coast just to eat at Bern’s did you??? It’s good, but not cross the country good
Great list of wines! No desert room upstairs??? A nice Sauternes would have finished that night off very nicely. I probably would not have been able to walk out on my own after all those great wines! Very jealous! great selections
FYI to newbees to Berns. - Bern’s keeps their cellars MUCH colder than most people. Whatever ordered should be done up front and allowed to warm up a bit. I hear their cellar is like 50 degrees! The food overall is very good.
Francois–I have done this kind of tasting before, although obviously not at this level. But regardless of whether the tasting is blind, there is much to be said for asking people to closely evaluate a group of wine BEFORE food, and then asking them to re-evaluate the same group of wines WITH food. People’s opinions don’t necessarily change, but sometimes there is a “Eureka” moment that people experience.
Sounds like a great idea and that it will be both fun and educational.
I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble but please be aware that there are a lot of false myths out there about the Bern’s cellar. The main myths are that the wine was all bought on or close to original release and that the wine is all stored at very low temperatures. These statements are simply not correct. First, much of the wine was purchased at auction in the 1960’s and perhaps the 1970’s. So it goes without saying that the substantial quantity of wines going back to the 19th Century or even to the first part of the 20th Century were not purchased on release. Second, Bern’s has two storage areas. The beautiful cellar at the premises of the restaurant, which does feature very low temperatures, stores only a portion of the collection. What I was told at the restaurant was that generally one bottle of each wine is kept in this cellar, with the balance of the wine stored in the warehouse across the street. At the warehouse across the street, which I have toured, is the bulk of the collection. It is a complete and fascinating mess, with wine strewn everywhere, apparently not entirely catalogued. When I was there on a spring evening last year, the temperature in this warehouse cellar was 60 degrees Fahrenheit. I do not know this for a fact, but the consensus of those of us who toured the warehouse cellar was that if the temperature was at 60 degrees on a Spring evening, it would be a bit of a concern what the temperature might be in the day or in Florida’s hot summer. And, even if temperature is not permitted to vary, which may or may not be the case, this is not exactly the super cool 50 degree temperature that the myth of Bern’s references and that is supposedly responsible for the wines aging so slowly.
Again, it is not my intention to bash Bern’s, only to challenge the myths that surround it. It is a great destination with a fascinating and unique collection. However, i would not assume in evaluating its wine that storage and provenance have been perfect, at extremely cold temperatures, since original release.
Of course, it seems evident that nothing is perfect here or elsewhere. We have sound memories 'references with all the wines tasted here in Europe and then, comparisons will have some values.
This operation will be carefully prepared before the evening, of course.
About judgment on wines : it is quite clear that here the vast majority of the readers have a better faith in their own judgment and experience : fine with me.
It is also quite clear - and all my recent posts are about it - that we have to give priority to what a wine is bringing to a table and not a score as such.
What I just want to check : how 8 very good tasters accept to change their mind from a blind tasting to a tasting at table where the pleasure factor became n° 1.
I am not doing the invitations and 8 for one bottle seems the maximum. Over that, it is something else… which will be done sooner than you think !
Francois, I recommend you get the captain’s room, do a slightly bigger group, and pour everything magnum. When we did this (not blind) we had some rather stunning wine from mags.
Howard, I think some of your information is incorrect… much of the older wine was purchased in the 50’s and 60’s, and certainly in the 70’s, some may have been obtained in the 40’s, but I am going from memory from my conversation with the somms and Bern’s son…but not necessarily at auction (this is the first I have heard of that, given that auctions weren’t prevalent in the US back then???), much of it, as I understand, was purchased directly overseas… As well, I have been in the warehouse, both floors, probably 10 times, and the temperature has always been much closer to 50 than 60 degrees… it is, indeed, a mess, though we found some fun stuff just tooling around with Eric…
Scott, I may have misremembered whether the big auction buying was in the 50’s through 70’s versus the 60’s and 70’s but my point was that this is in any event not all wine that was bought on initial release, as many people have reported. Certainly some or a lot of the wine was bought on initial release, from Europe, or from impeccable sources, but the point is that the myth itself is incorrect. Same with regard to the warehouse storage temperature. I personally observed the gauge on a Spring evening at exactly 60 degrees. Whether that was an aberration (no reason why it might be on a Spring evening) is again beside the point: the point is that they don’t consistently store all their wine at 50 degrees or cooler, as the myth goes.
Eric LeVine wrote:
My problem is that I often find that I enjoy a wine less if I am engaged in a guessing game.
Me too.
That statement is quite interesting since with our Romanéens Group (5 members, all coming to Tampa) we enjoy more when we have to guess since, usually, the wines bring some surprise, i.e. some beaujolais 1978 which are taken as “grand cru” from Clos de Vougeot.
But you are also right when I think about some great names, such as LT from DRC. When you see the label before drinking, you have already in your mind a substantial amount of pleasure because you know the history, the culture, the origin, the reputation of the wine. Top labels have this capacity to offset minor defaults and bringing joyce by themselves. Do not mistake me : I love this aspect about wine.
My Country Squires group has done a LT dinner and a DRC RSV dinner the last couple of months. Not blind. The RSV’s were far superior to the La Tache’s with many of the same vintages at both dinners.
I understand why you don’t have any discussion during the tasting portion of your sessions, but for me that takes away the vast majority of the fun of drinking wine with friends.
![[swoon.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f425e8dac3e7344bee264da02e55428971be23a9.gif "swoon"){kind=small}