A classification, vintages and impressions of Loire reds

WINE TALK
1403

2015 Alliance Loire Saumur-Champigny Les Villaises

Fresh but ripe notes of dark raspberry and blackcurrant on the nose, then a ripe, but by no means overripe, mouthful of blackcurrants at first, then the dark raspberry, with a glorious streak of blackberry and blueberry midpalate, before a cool but persistent finish.

This has steadily improved over the years, going gradually from a standard Monday night drinker to something surprisingly complex and interesting. Sadly my last, because I think this might even have improved further.

Further proof, if it was ever needed, that there are very good red Loire wines which won’t break the bank - because this wine, made by a growers’ cooperative, cost a mere 6 euros.

The style is “modern classic”, i.e. Villeneuve or Grosbois rather than Roches Neuves, and could easily have come from those estates. It could easily pass for a 20 to 25 euro wine. 91 pts

1404

La Porte Saint Jean - Saumur-Champigny - Les Beaugrands - 2013

Very pongy on opening, a really “enticing” smell of rotting manure! Luckily it quickly disappeared, replaced by some more seriously enticing aromas this time, of raspberries and strawberries, with a hint of hay and vanilla. Fresh, crunchy raspberries on the palate, then just a hint of the difficult vintage, so green pepper, before a much richer seam of blackcurrant and cranberry, finishing with a very long and satisfying medley of the three fruits. Plenty of life left and maybe room for improvement. 91 pts

I’d never tried a wine from this plot before and probably will never get another chance, as it was sold and the 2013 was the last vintage. I was given it by my university colleagues when I retired last year, and when I saw the vintage, I had to hide a little grimace, but happily I was wrong to be a doubting Thomas, because Sylvain Dittière somehow made a very decent wine. I would never have guessed it was a 2013, apart from the hint of green pepper, and it is really more like a 2014, both in taste and quality.

Something weird - when I opened it last night, I saw to my surprise that it had been bottled in 2020. I looked it up, and sure enough, it had been aged in barrels for all that time. Whether this contributed to the richness midpalate I have no idea.

Anyway, however enjoyable, there are countless 2014s that are better and cheaper, but if you spot it at auction, it might be worth a punt at the right price.

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1405

Clos Rougeard Saumur Champigny 2014

One of my all time wine “bucket Listers”. Thankfully it lived up to the hype. An endlessly complex nose of raspberries, spice, mint, orange a little barnyard. Such a bright fruited pure and fresh nose, I couldn’t stop smelling. More low intervention than I imagined it would be, but none the worse for it. Amazingly balanced palate, fresh, nice acidity and gentle tannins. So, so good.

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1406

The Caviste who obviously knows his stuff claims that’s the best address in the area right now. I will give them another go …

1407

Hi Luke,

Quick question for you: what do you mean by this? Specifically, which presenting characteristics mark a wine as “low intervention” for you — if you have different answers generally and with respect to this wine, then I’m quite happy to hear both. :slight_smile:

1408

Hi Brian,

Good question and I was actually thinking about this myself today. I guess the very general answer is that it has a sense of rusticity about it. It wasn’t really polished and didn’t seem overly manipulated (like some interpretations of CF I’ve tried). It had a real sense of place and such purity that can sometimes get lost when the vigneron tries to do too much. Also it wasn’t filtered so had that slight haze to it.

I know that’s a bit vague, but that’s what I was trying to explain.

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1409

Summer is perfect for Loire CFs in general and in particular for me, Roches Neuves. I’ve enjoyed three in the last couple of weeks:

Domaine des Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Franc de Pied 2017

Very good indeed. Rosehips, violets and red cherry on the nose, then much the same on the palate, with crunchy black fruits on the second wave and a very persistent finish. Still in development but very enjoyable. A classic FDP, refreshing and crisp, but with growing complexity. Subtle but moreish. 93 pts

Domaine des Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Franc de Pied 2018

Certainly lusher than a usual FDP, with notes of wild strawberry and juicy red cherry on the palate, after a heady bouquet of red fruits and peonies. But nothing syrupy, not at all over sweet, as the trademark crisp acidity keeps it well balanced. Deliciously beguiling fruit which promises more pleasure in another two years or so. Less subtle but not all flashy. 93 pts

Fans of the really crunchy style will prefer the 2017 but on the night, it was the 2018 that I kept going back to. Once again, I was struck by the reliability of the FDP - whatever the vintage conditions, I’ve never had a bad bottle (admittedly, I never bought any from 2013!).

Domaine des Roches Neuves Saumur-Champigny Les Mémoires 2014

Delicious, but still an adolescent. Dark cherries, blackcurrants and lingonberries on the nose, with hints of chalk and flint, then a crisp attack of the same, before a much deeper middle section featuring sweet, but not remotely lush, blackberry, then a fine, chiselled finish. 94 pts

I wondered which of the FDP or Mémoires 2014 would turn out the best: much as I love the former, the latter is just starting to pull away. It’ll be interesting to compare the two in another five years.

In the meantime, the Mémoires needs a long decant - it’s still quite tight and brooding.

I love Roches Neuves reds. The only one I’m not convinced by is Clos de L’Echelier, but the other six cuvées are all excellent. I just wish there weren’t quite so many - it would reduce temptation! My favourites are FDP and Les Mémoires, but all the others are worth trying, including the simple domaine wine.

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1410

Great notes Julian. I love their reds in most vintages as well.

Or the 2016!

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1411

I really need to get back to trying these wines! Thanks for the wonderful notes!

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1412

Think I need to revisit (aka looking at auctions) Mémories then. Because 2014 FDP is a damn fine wine!

1413

It most certainly is!

Obviously, it’s just my taste. For anyone curious about which is best, I find the differences in quality between the various wines produced by Roches Neuves to be fairly small, but there all the same. I’m not a fan of points and I’m quite conservative with them - I rarely go above 94. But just in terms of my ratings, I would class them as follows:

Domaine: 88/89
Terres Chaudes: 90/91, but I gave 92 to he 2015. Generally darker fruit and less crunchy than the others.
La Marginale: 91/92
Franc de Pied: 92/93
Outre Terre: probably 92/93 but I haven’t had as many as the FDP. My impression is that the amphorae give a rounder, less crunchy feel to the fruit.
Mémoires: 93/94, potentially higher.

As for Clos de L’Echélier, I’m not at all sure and need to try more. My gut feeling so far would be to put it at the same level as La Marginale.

My favourite is the Franc de Pied, and that’s the one I drink most frequently. I think it’s the best value too, but Les Mémoires is just a bit deeper and more concentrated, judging by direct comparisons both with the 2014 and 2016 FDPs. Les Mémoires can be found for around 35€, compared to 28/30€ for the FDP, so not a big difference in price - but not a big difference in quality either (+ one point when trying with the FDP 14 and 16!).

Anyone in Europe would be well advised to buy all Roches Neuves wines at auction rather than retail. Thierry Germain is careful about who can sell his wines and at what prices, so bargains are impossible to find (in my experience). iDealwine, for example, sells them practically every week and the prices are normally at least 10% cheaper than retail, sometimes a lot less.
Such a high supply level also means that these wines are definitely not for speculators, and there is no point bidding too high either (the same wine will probably appear again soon afterwards at the “normal” price).
This also means that compared to other similarly styled wines, like La Porte Saint Jean, which are harder to find, the Roches Neuves stable provides better value.

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1414

Had a 2021 Domaine Guiberteau - Saumur Blanc Breze over the last few days. Excellent Chenin that takes a bit of air (I’d give it 30-60min in carafe, or at least slow ox) to show its full potential. High acidity but well balanced, typical chamomile & ripe apple/ quince notes that linger with decent minerality and a touch of honey towards the end. Also drank decently on day 3 after spending some time in the fridge.

Will need to revisit but would go in the 92-93 point range.

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1415

Had a fantastic bottle of 2015 Baudry Grézeaux the other night. Check it out if you have some, IMO it’s in a great drinking window.

2015 Domaine Bernard Baudry Chinon Les Grézeaux - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Chinon (6/24/2025)
This bottle was absolutely in a perfect spot. I was surprised at how resolved the tannins were and that it didn't show any clumsiness from a warm vintage. All the classic Grézeaux aromas and flavors, dark tilled earth, stones, herb tinged cherry fruits with a medium bodied palate presence and good finishing acidity and just a bit of tannin. (92 points)

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1416

late writeup on what is becoming an annual, right-out-the-gates-as-soon-as-they-hit-the-shelves, blind tasting of these two:
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2020 Domaine du Bel Air (Pierre et Rodolphe Gauthier) Bourgueil Grand Mont - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil (3/12/2025)
– uncorked 1.25 hrs. before first taste –
– tasted blind alongside what proved to be 2020 Clos Nouveau over 3.25 hrs on Day 1; revisited on Day 3 –

NOSE: quite giving, with deep dark-fruited aromatics; black cherry; spiced beef – peppery marinade; obviously Cab. Franc. DAY 3: still more pyrazine here than on the other wine.

BODY: medium bodied; violet-garnet color of medium-deep depth.

TASTE: gently drying tannins; a touch flashy; more accessible than the other wine; plum and light blackberry fruits; prefer this one for drinking today, but feel the other one is the more Complete & Grand wine; 13% abv is hidden. DAY 3: still tasty, tannic, and dark-fruited. Drink or Hold, but best to Hold.
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2020 Domaine du Bel Air (Pierre et Rodolphe Gauthier) Bourgueil Clos Nouveau - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Bourgueil (3/12/2025)
– uncorked 1.25 hrs. before first taste –
– tasted blind alongside what proved to be 2020 Grand Mont over 3.25 hrs on Day 1; revisited on Day 3 –

NOSE: tight; faint pyrazine; light, fine oak; bit of sweet edge; opened a little bit over 3 hrs on Day 1, but not much. DAY 3: still pretty reserved.

BODY: medium bodied; violet-garnet color of medium-deep depth.

TASTE: drying tannin; medium-light to medium oak; more stuffing than the other wine; deeply-embedded pyrazine and medium-to-medium+ acidity (juicy) — just have to get past the tannins to get there; opened a little bit over the course of 3 hrs tasting on Day 1. 13% abv. hidden. DAY 3: a bit too cold at first, and that accentuates the oak; not a whole lot different today than on Day 1. Hold.

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1417

Thanks Brian - good to know as I just bought some Grand Mont 2020 - which will now slumber peacefully in my cellar!

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1418

Given the rate of your participation in this thread, I have no doubt you have an abundance of Loire C.F. to draw from. That said, depending on QTY purchased, it’s not criminal to take the Grand Mont for a spin right now; the Clos Nouveau, on the other hand, … :grimacing:

1419

You’re right, I do…er…have rather a lot! I’m gradually building up my collection to get towards parity with my Bordeaux haul. I’m increasingly drawn to these wines and find that I simply prefer them. Having now tried a few older Bel Airs, I will probably lay off opening any young ones as they do really take off after ten to fifteen years.

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1420

What does “older” mean when you say “older Bel Airs”?

1421

For me, as I said, ten to fifteen years - I’ve enjoyed some from 09, 10 and 14 recently which have been much more complex than when they were younger. I’m pretty sure they will be even better in the future. Those older ones really made me understand the domain’s reputation.

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1422

That’s fantastic to hear! I’ve made a fairly large bet on them, based entirely on my own palate and perceptions (as opposed to experience) — and that often makes me quite nervous, given some of the wrong calls I’ve made in the past. Of the three vintages you just listed, the only one I’m holding is the '14 CN, and that’s in magnum, so I figure I should continue letting that one rest awhile.