But at 25 USD, it would still make a good wine at an ok price for a coq au vin if the wine is boring - it would hurt more if that happens to you with a 100 USD burgundy! Eg, just had a 2011 Anne Gros CM Combe d’Orveau: ok wine, but not for current retail price.
I’ve tasted both, the 2017s and 2018s. They are both entry level cuvees, but of the two, the Clos Mazurique seems the more structured cuvee while the Terres Rouges is an easy drinking crowd pleaser (though derived from older vines). All of his wines have very floral aromatics and are very good values (IMO). The Terres Rouges is a good cellar defender bottle, as well as a crowd pleaser that might help get someone interested in Loire Cab Franc. It has the crunchy, brambly fruit that I associate with Loire Cab Franc but is a bit more plush than the Clos Mazurique. I think they are both around $20-25 in the States.
It’s around 10-12 euros in France for both wines. I have a barbecue with friends tomorrow and reading your message, it seems a perfect occasion to try on a Terres Rouges 18. I’ll report back here 
Sage. ![[winner.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/07ec25c9fd71159fe15d7f1ba5fad64e91238d0e.gif "winner"){kind=small}
Is there much of a climb, though? Not trying to be reflexively argumentative or nitpick every last sentence. But your comment made me try to recall how prices have evolved on the Chinon/Bourgueil wines I like over the years I’ve been buying them. And while I’m pretty lazy about keeping records, my sense is, in most cases, they haven’t climbed much at all. (Leaving aside whatever’s going on with Lenoir.)
For example, the first vintage of Dom. de la Butte Mi Pente I purchased was 2005, followed by the 2004 (which was still available). I’m pretty sure i paid about $30 for those. The 2017, which is available locally, costs me $33–a small decline once you subtract out inflation. Similarly, I believe the first Croix Boisee I bought (2007) was $40; the most recent (2016) cost $46. This is true for a lot of the producers i buy regularly, including Amirault, Coulaine, Olga, and others. There are a couple that seem to have risen more than just general consumer inflation would dictate (cough Kermit), but even those haven’t been very dramatic.
And actually, I think that gets at what’s weird about the trendy Saumur/S-C wines. They have climbed substantially, so that some of them now cost twice as much as the Baudrys and the Amiraults and the Coulaines.* I can’t see any other explanation than a Rougeard effect.
Maybe there’ll eventually be a spillover effect, and demand for these wines will grow enough to begin pulling up prices. Anecdotally, it seems to me that I’m more likely to see the occasional Chinon or Bourgueil on a restaurant list than I was 10-15 years ago. From what Julian says, it sounds like quarantined French drinkers are driving up prices on a few of these wines (Alliet, Bel Air); maybe the rest of us will eventually follow their lead.
But I don’t think I see it yet.
*I realize that prices where I am are affected by exchange rates, tariffs, and other factors. But it’s really the divergence in prices that I’m interested in: stable vs. increasing.
Baudry Croix Boisee is a good example. Its retail price and value in the secondary market / auction in good vintages have been going up from what I’ve seen. Going back, I think ‘96 is the first one I saw on release, and it was around $22-24 IIRC. I paid $26-28 for 2005 and $37.95 for 2010 (it’s so good). I didn’t buy 2006 but was offered at $29-30. Now current release price is $45+.
Nothing like the increase in Rougeard over that time. And I certainly don’t begrudge the increase as I think Bernard and Matthieu are doing fabulous work and they are wonderful people. And I’m happy to support LDM as importers. I’m just saying that there seems to be rising demand so that I expect prices to continue creeping up.
I tried two Saumur-Champignys from 2014 this week, both from Les Poyeux: Antoine Sanzay and Dominique Joseph. I wanted to try another A.S., the last one having not really convinced me, but wanted also to compare it with another producer’s Les Poyeux from the same year. I started with the D.J. on Monday night, then the A.S. on Tuesday night, finally both together last night. Both wines are organic, both contain some sulphur and from what I can ascertain, they have the same mixture of sand, clay and limestone soil.
Dominique Joseph (Le Petit Saint Vincent) Les Poyeux 2014
Cassis and violet aromas, with spring flowers and a hint of spice. Quite dark and brooding at first, then crunchy, chiseled tastes of morello cherry and blackcurrant, then a touch of violet before a crisp, fresh finish. The fruit was deep, rocky, flinty even, but inviting. Obviously in need of four to five years at least, but very promising.
Antoine Sanzay Les Poyeux 2014
Much darker than the last bottle, but with the same floral notes, then like the last one, crunchy sweet cassis and strawberry, but altogether more intense and satisfying. This time, there was plenty of body and texture, although understandably, not the complexity it will develop in time. Much more convincing than the first bottle.
Trying them together was very interesting. The colour was identical, the noses similar yet completely different - the same floral notes, but the Sanzay was much more open and expressive, much more inviting. On the palate, the Joseph was intense but a little reticent, whereas the Sanzay was broader and brighter, the comparison revealing notes of red cherry I hadn’t noticed before. Something else I hadn’t noticed before was a slight zing to the finish, as if the wine was re-fermenting.
Both wines are very much part of the new breed - so the fruit tastes less sweet, more pure, crunchy rather than slurpy. They’re light years from gloopy Right Bank wines. The acidity and crispness are very refreshing.
Both reminded me of Roches-Neuves. In terms of price, the Joseph costs between 20 and 25€, whereas the Sanzay is around 35€. This is the only problem - much as I liked the Sanzay this time and preferred it to the Joseph, I’m not certain that I want to pay 35€ for another bottle - because there are lots of other wines at that price. 35€ will get me the top Roches-Neuves cuvées, the top Joguets, or the top Baudry and Alliet with change, and all of them are better. But it’s still a great wine.
I had a chat with my main wine merchant source this week who told me that 2014 is his favourite vintage of the decade, one for true purists, because of the acidity and tension. All the wines I have tried so far have shown the same characteristics - the fruit is not super-ripe, but fresh, like the sensation you get when drinking zero dosed champagne. I suspect that for me it’ll be a toss-up between 2014 and 2015, but the latter will certainly be easier for those who are not Loire über geeks!
As to Jayson’s points about prices, I agree with him - it’s logical that after six successful vintages and an increase in attention and sales, prices will rise. They already have.
At auction, we will see - prices for older vintages of Chinon especially are high, but with so many good recent vintages, older ones may be less sought after in the future since there will simply be more of them.
Julian, stop all this banter right here until you try a Rougeard!!! 
It will be revelatory. And then sends you to the poor house.
Rougeard? In your dreams (well, mine)! I’m a poor, struggling university lecturer! But you’re right, I know, I know, eventually, I will have to sell a few gloopy Right Banks and invest in a Rougeard. Then I will complain and send you the bill when it doesn’t turn out to be as good as I hoped!
First showing for a Terres Rouges 2018 from Arnaud Lambert, and a convincing one. Red fruits (raspberries and strawberries), floral notes and very fine tannins. Couple of friends found it peppery as well. Nice fresh finish. Maybe thanks to 2018 vintage, but it was both ripe and fresh at the same time. Gonna buy some more, nice crowd pleaser at a low price.
Agreed!
And thanks again for being my mule! Best ever!
Christian Venier? Cheverny. Red lineup: Pinot Noir, Gamay/Pinot blends and Cab Franc. I believe he also does some Menu Pineau. Seems a bit hip, natural wines. Just had a Pinot Noir - La Pierre aux Chiens that I thought was decent. I’m imagining dozens of guys like him with representation at Parisian natural wine bars…but can’t tell from 3700 miles away.
RT
Thanks Hamza, I’ll try mine this summer, or even next week if this barbecue weather continues!
A warning on 2002 Collier whites. Even worse affected by premox than Huet. I bought 4 back in the day, 3 were shot, one was amazingly gorgeous.
I’m glad the Sanzay worked out better this time. Don’t hesitate to open a bottle of the domaine wine, should you come across one.
Thanks also for reporting on a new producer. (Apparently there are more vignerons making wine from vines in Les Poyeaux than I realized.) I don’t think the Joseph makes it over here, but I’ll certainly sample some if they do.
I certainly agree about relative prices of S-C wines relative to the best of Chinon/Bourgueil/SNdB. But I’m curious whether you think that S-C differs from cf from those appellations in appreciable ways at a general level (which would make them less “substitutable”). Although I’m sure I’d embarrass myself in a blind tasting, I do tend to feel that there’s a bit of a difference, especially in terms of aromatics and tannins. Although it doesn’t warrant some kind of large premium in terms of price, for me S-C/Saumur does give a somewhat distinct experience.
Thanks for the warning. Do you know anything about their sulphur use/non-use?
I always make a fool of myself in blind tastings! There are lots of better placed people here than me to comment on the difference between S-C and the others: my experience with older S-Cs is small and I’ve never tasted the Godfather of S-Cs. My vague impression is that in their youth, they are crunchier, less tannic, more approachable, with a beguiling blend of smoky, velvety fruit when older, and I haven’t come across the same chalkiness as in Chinons, or the hints of spice in Bourgeuils. Just my impression.
I’ll certainly taste some more Sanzays, it was fun trying them and I’ll definitely look out for other wines from his portfolio.
Not Julian, but … based on my limited exposure to S-C wines, (for reds) I’ve typically found I prefer Chinon over S-C. So, if S-C needs to get hipstery in order for Chinon to remain under the radar, well, I’m okay with that. Frustrating thing is my favorite Loire white producer is out of S-C, so they would get caught up in the rising tide (and already are, really), much to my chagrin.
Apparently a couple of cuvees from Antoine Sanzay are newly available in the US. Anyone have experience with “La Haye Dampierre” or “La Terre Rouge”?
I haven’t tried them, but they are sort of in the middle of his range, selling here for around 25€.
I had a couple of Bourgueils this week:
Domaine des Chesnaies - Cuvée Prestige - Lamé Delisle Boucard - Bourgueil 2010
Cedar, cherry and tobacco aromas, with quite a spicy, medium-bodied attack of red cherry, morphing into blackberry and hints of tobacco and blackcurrant. Quite acidic, with a pleasant tang to the finish. Amazing value at 8€ but not the depth of the better Bourgueils.
Catherine & Pierre Breton Bourgueil Les Perrières 2005
A totally different proposition, this one had rich aromas of velvety plum and toffee, before a thick mouthful of plums and dark cherry, a brief but welcome freshness mid-palate and a long, brooding finish. It has several years to go and will improve further, but I could have done with a little more crispness and freshness on the finish. What I did like about it was the alcohol level - a mere 12°, quite a change from other 05s which are mostly around 14°, so although very plush and rich, it wasn’t overpowering. Overall very impressive.