Jozef–one other thought. If it’s available to you, I’d strongly recommend trying the VV cuvee. To me, it’s clearly the one that drinks the best early on. Additionally, my understanding is that in warm/hot vintages (and 2018 definitely qualifies), older vines generally do better managing the stress than their younger counterparts, due to the deeper root system. So the VV is the bottle to look out for.
Robert and Jayson–thanks for explaining the Juge situation. I hope you guys got to enjoy plenty of bottles and sample lots vintages before it went stratospheric.
Robert–in response to your Dioterie note above, I meant to ask if you have any thoughts about the window for the 2010 (my oldest bottle of this wine). In my experience, it’s a much less open vintage even with lower level wines, so I’d imagine it’s still a long way off. But I’d be very curious to hear what you think.
Thanks for the info! It seems the daughter has now fully taken over for the father, too.
In a roundabout way, the wine sort of made me smile because it seemed to be so consciously made in such a deeply unfashionable and unforgiving style. It’s like it actively ignored the last thirty years of wine history and technique. I probably wouldn’t want to drink it again, but I’m sort of glad it exists.
I think 2010 Dioterie is structurally built more like 2005, so I’d give it to 2025 at least. I have a fair bit of Juge, but with a wine like this, that’s never enough!
Are Collier’s reds worth their current asking prices, in folks’ opinions? I’m seeing mostly $70 - $80. That’s pretty pricey for the region …
And, if I can be allowed a brief detour into whites: are Collier’s whites “worth it”? For their Samur blanc, I’m seeing $42 - $55, depending on vintage.
If I understand right, Collier has two bottlings each of red and white, from different sites (with vines of different ages): La Ripaille, which retails here for $45-ish, and La Charpentrie, which retails here for $75-ish.
I’m sure that those prices, in part, reflect some reputational value from the Foucault name. To say nothing of the trendiness of Saumur/Saumur-Champigny, in general (e.g. this).
I’ve only tried one, a 2011 Collier La Ripaille rouge, which I found pretty impressive. I’ve been looking to buy some of the wines to further see what they’re like and how they age, perhaps also motivated by a conversation with a guy I met who’s itb in France, and who felt strongly that the Collier wines (white and red) are some of–if not the–best from the Loire, and are becoming increasingly difficult to find in France. (I believe that Julian, who lives nears Paris, has reported in this thread that people there chase them pretty hard there.)
That said, I’m going slowly. CT shows brett complaints in a few vintages of La Charpentrie rouge, for what that’s worth. More generally, my feeling is that while S-C reds really do have a somewhat different profile from those of Chinon/Bourgueil/SNdB, it’s not clear to me (yet) whether the trendy ones warrant prices significantly higher than the best of those regions, and if so which ones.
FWIW Domaine de Sanzay doesn’t get the same plaudits as Antoine Sanzay - for example the 2014 was given 87 points compared to 91 for Antoine S’s but they don’t cost the same and from a great vintage I’d take them at that price.
Exactly. This is not Antoine Sanzay. Perhaps there’s some family drama behind these near-namesakes, but whatever the back-story, Antoine’s the more well-known and highly regarded.
While I bit on a couple of these b/c I’ve never tried them before, my suspicion is that at roughly this price, Antoine’s domaine wine is the best bet.
Cool. Sounds like everyone’s thinking is tracking mine. As far as “what is there to lose?”, I’ll just say this: I’m really trying to avoid putting any more boring/whatever bottles in my cellar.
I’ve never tried a Collier red (or white) and unless I get lucky, I’m unlikely to do so. Whenever they come on the market, they go in minutes and at auction, the prices have skyrocketed. The Charpentrie 2013 (yes, 2013!) sold for 102€ in April, the 2012 for between 120 and 150€. La Ripaille is cheaper - around 40€, but just as hard to get.
I’m told they’re very good, but whether or not they’re worth that much I don’t know. Obviously, compared to Clos Rougeard, they’re not expensive, which probably explains why they are so sought after. I suspect speculation rather than taste to be the driving factor behind the success.
Thanks for the link to the article - very interesting, I didn’t know that S-C was so trendy! By coincidence, I’m tasting a 2014 Les Poyeux by one of the producers mentioned, Dominique Joseph, with the same by Antoine Sanzay over three nights, starting last night, which I’ll report back on later this week.
Their taste profile is different, but my gut feeling is that many S-Cs are over-priced compared to the top Chinons and even more so compared to Bourgueil. Although with Clos Nouveau’s recent ascension, that may be changing.
So it sounds like my acquaintance was voicing a pretty common view among French wine nerds regarding Collier, whether or not it’s objectively “correct.” He was quite the fan himself.
Btw, he also mentioned that Lenoir, from Chinon, had become super-expensive in France. Don’t know if you’ve seen any indication of that or not. (I was told elsewhere that Lenior’s not producing wine anymore for some reason, so if true, maybe that’s part of the reason.)
I dearly hope the (Antoine) Sanzay wine shows well. (Or at least that it doesn’t crush your vinous soul the way the last one apparently did.) The bottles I opened were very good, and not in a way that seemed like it would be especially polarizing. To be a bit facetious, I consider them another Loire cf producer whose wines can be served in polite company.
Re: Collier, it’s not so surprising that Antoine Foucault’s wines would eventually go up in price. Saumur has become trendy. In view of the trends, domaines like Filleatreau are very well priced still. For now.
If trends in wine continue, I would expect retail Chinon and Bourgueil prices among the best domaines to continue their climb too. Especially in the secondary market.
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
