Thanks for the update. I have a pair of these left. Loved it on release.
RT
Julian, thanks for the notes, especially the one on the 05 Les Perrieres. I’ve always thought of Breton as a producer who does particularly well in riper vintages, due to a predilection a towards a slightly leaner, less extracted style.
I actually have a single bottle of the 02 Les Perrieres that I can’t decide whether to open. The handful of recent notes on CT (from 2017 and 2018) all point to some secondary/tertiary development, so I’m leaning towards sooner rather than later.
Any opinions on Chateau de Chaintres or Chateau du Petite Thouars?
Troy - I’ve tried Château de Chaintres a few times, but I don’t remember anything special. Never tried Petite Thouars.
I did try something interesting this weekend - Château Coudray Montpensier - Chinon 2014
Plump, ripe, velvety blueberry and blackcurrant, with a crisp, chalky finish, so classic Chinon, for a mere 6 euros. There isn’t quite the class of the top Chinons, but each time I open one, I’m surprised by how good it is. The fruit is ripe but not overripe, so it has a classic, unforced charm to it. Tasted alongside Clos de L’Echo Crescendo 1997, it couldn’t compete but it wasn’t out of its depth either.
This can be found in the US according to Winesearcher, for around 18$, which is a bit more, but I would think it would compare favourably with other Chinons at the same price.
Recently, Chambers Street Wines in NYC offered a number of wines from Domaine de Chevalerie, accompanied by an excellent article on the various terroirs of Bourgueil (and how they differ from neighboring AOCs), I believe by Pascaline Lepeltier, the somm at Racines. While I imagine many on this board have already seen it, anyone who hasn’t can take a look here.
I’ve only had a couple of Chevalerie wines, but they were quite good: a 1996 Breteche and 2001 Chevalerie. I was happy to order some younger vintages, but very annoyed that I missed out on the Grand Mont.
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I’m a big fan of the Chevalerie Breteche. The 2010 was great.
Slightly off-topic, but I had an amazing 2015 Thierry German Clos du Moulin S-C blanc last night. Better than the 2015 Huet secs I’ve tried. Crazy aromatics and energetic as all get out.
To switch it up a little bit, how would folks rank the following appellations, relative to each other? (for red wines)
Anjou
Bourgueil
Chinon
Saumur(-Champigny)
Touraine
Back when I was learning about Loire cf, the standard line was that there weren’t really appreciable differences between Chinon and Bourgueil (and St Nicolas de Bourgueil, for that matter). Instead, it was particular types of terroir, which could be found within each of these appellations, that gave rise to fairly distinctive characteristics of the wines. To be sure, SNdB was always considered the least profound of the trio, because it mainly has alluvial sites (predominantly gravel and sand), which usually give less structured, less ageable wines. But (supposedly) there’s nothing to distinguish these different AOCs per se.
In the CSW mini-article I linked to above, she kind of suggests that this is wrong, and there is a bit of a distinction, so don’t take this as any kind of gospel. But I will say that if there really are such differences, they’re too subtle for me.
I believe that Chinon, Bourgueil, and SNdB are all “sub-appellations” within the larger Touraine AOC. Outside of those three sub-appellations, you find a lot of other red varieties—gamay, cot/Malbec, and some of the more obscure traditional Loire grapes. I haven’t had much Touraine cf that I can remember except Clos Roche Blanche, which I don’t recall seeming profoundly different from what you’d encounter in Chinon/Bourgueil/SNdB. (It was, not surprisingly, outstanding.)
Saumur is its own AOC, with Saumur-Champigny as a sub-appellation. S-C is supposed to have a lot of the best sites, but my understanding is that it’s not appreciably different terroir.
Anjou cf I know little about. Whether its terroirs differ profoundly from Saumur, I’m not sure. I was told recently that it’s becoming hipsterized, with younger, ultra-naturalist winemakers increasingly moving there. (The implication being that Chinon and Bourgueil and fancy Saumur are now wines for squares.) But that’s just hearsay. I’d actually love to sample some.
With regard to the original question, as indicated, I think many people don’t really perceive meaningful differences between Chinon/Bourgueil/SNdB. So, the issue becomes whether and to what extent one thinks that Saumur/S-C is appreciably different from them. If the answer is “yes”, one could certainly rank those two in relation to one’s preferences. There’s been some discussion throughout the thread of whether this is case; I certainly feel that Saumur cf tends to differ in terms of its tannins (rounder, finer, and more elegant) and aromatics (more floral). I’ve also encountered fewer barnyard or funky elements Saumur wines, though this is presumably due to winemaking. But since I don’t generally mind a bit of the funky stuff, I’m not inclined to rank them.
Sorry to go stream-of-consciousness again.
Sorry, I was ill - thanks Elliot for the link to that very good article by Pascaline Lepeltier. She writes an article every month for la RVF and they’re always good. She also took part in their annual Loire review. I also enjoyed your musings on Brian’s interesting question - don’t worry about the stream, keep it flowing!
As to Brian’s question, for my part I don’t know really. It’s a bit of a minefield, because although I prefer Chinon, what about Rougeard, Collier, etc? Even in Bordeaux I would find it very tricky, but with the myriad of really ordinary wines produced in each Loire appellation, I think classifying them is impossible.
Interesting. I wasn’t taken by the early Collier wines and only re-visited a few years ago. The 2009 has been stunning every time I’ve had it. Was it a step function? That is, was it good until it immediately just crumbled?
Drinking my first Roches Neuves Franc de Pied 2017 from a 3 pack - on the nose, a touch herbal, but in no way pronounced. Mineral, sweet red/dark fruit coming out. On the palate, it is remarkably “smooth” - no rough tannins, the wine can perfectly be drunk on its own. Medium length. In very general terms, this wine confirms my description of Roches Neuves wines as “clean”, “polished” wines. Nothing wrong with that in my book - my wife likes it. Have drunk other cuvees over the last year, but the differences are hard to tell for me.
I bought them maybe 5? years after vintage. Now that I think of it I’m not sure if it was three bottles or four. I tried one expecting to bury the rest but it was shot. As was the second. I opened the last one and it was glorious.
Just opened the 2016 Domaine Guion Cuvée Domaine I referenced earlier in the thread.
Sometimes there’s nothing I love more than an encounter with a textbook example of a given region or style, and this is that; blue and purple fruit, just a hint of green pepper, a bit of gravel and lovely freshness. Grippy tannin, lightly spicy finish. Rustic and old-school but tasty, tasty, tasty and perfect with steak.
Great note and comments. It’s an amazing QPR. And it ages effortlessly. I had a 1985 several years ago that was excellent, better than Lenoir from the same vintage.
Tried one last night and I thoroughly agree with your excellent note - like your friends, I got the pepper too! I think it needs another year or two, but I really liked the way the fruit is both ripe and fresh, as you say, without the unnecessary sugary taste that I feared from 2018.
2014 Domaine Guiberteau Saumur Les Motelles Rouge
Beautifully classic Saumur Cab Franc. Gravelly mineral presence, concentrated dark red fruit l, a game-y wildness and just a touch of green character. After a little air, a bit of tobacco. Robust tannins and fresh acidity means there’s a lot in the tank as far as aging potential goes.
2017 Guiberteau Chapaudaises was wonderful tonight. Just the right balance with some juicy fruit but a darker finish of tobacco and fresh undergrowth.
I saw what you did there. 
2 x 2010 Etienne Sauzet Montrachet
Life just get into the way of drinking wine(or reading about wine like this thread) Randomly pulled this bottle out of a box from wine locker when I made a quick stop to drop something off.
2011 Lamarginale is a perfect cab franc in my book, full of cab franc unique characters but beautifully enjoyable. Way better than the last Loire red I had, 14 Clos Rougeard. I have a few more bottles of TG, but clearly should backfill more given their price are still fairly reasonable…
Also a flash back to the first time I had Thierry Germain in Paris.
