2016 Hubert Lignier Morey St Denis 1er VV - best sub $200 burgundy out there?

[Mark_Y]

This is depressing… no other wine region is at this pricing level…

Too bad i love burgs… #sad.

[Howard_Cooper]

I like but do not love Hubert Lignier’s wines. For a start, for under $200, I would rather have:

Hudelot Noellat Clos Vougeot (paid $150 for the 2017), VR les Suchots or Beaumonts and CM Charmes.
Yvon Clerget Clos Vougeot
d’Angerville Taillepieds
Rossignol-Trapet Chapelle or Laricieres Chambertin
Jouan MSD Clos Sorbes

Also, when I tasted his wines at the Paulee grand tasting at NY this year, I thought there was a huge step down from his Chaffots to his 1er Cru VV. Not sure why you did not mention the Chaffots. It also is under $200, at least according to Wine Searcher.

[M_Meer]

Agreed, but I took the OP to be referring to recent top vintages 2015-2016.

Cool cool. Guess I’m too used to dumpster diving. Won’t be sniffing '16s for a couple of years until they get down to my level.

BTW, forget what I said about the Suchots. Mugnier Fuees was something that could be had under $200 last year. Hope it’s not another one I can’t drink up.

[Howard_Cooper]

I too prefer the Lignier Combottes, but it is over $200. The only Mugnier that is under $200 is the NSG Marechale and I think the Lignier is better. Lafarge top 1ers are over $200 as is D’Angerville Ducs and Arnoux Suchots.

Maybe not always cherry vintages, but they can be had, save probably for the Suchots at this point

Agreed, but I took the OP to be referring to recent top vintages 2015-2016.

I have found that, in some cases, the 2017s are cheaper than the 2016s - should be also given the relative quantities produced.

[CFu]

I like but do not love Hubert Lignier’s wines. For a start, for under $200, I would rather have:

Hudelot Noellat Clos Vougeot (paid $150 for the 2017), VR les Suchots or Beaumonts and CM Charmes.
Yvon Clerget Clos Vougeot
d’Angerville Taillepieds
Rossignol-Trapet Chapelle or Laricieres Chambertin
Jouan MSD Clos Sorbes

Also, when I tasted his wines at the Paulee grand tasting at NY this year, I thought there was a huge step down from his Chaffots to his 1er Cru VV. Not sure why you did not mention the Chaffots. It also is under $200, at least according to Wine Searcher.

I don’t like the Chaffots as much. It is definitely far under $200 which is nice. Chaffots was $139! Good deal.

I definitely had Noellat Suchot on my mind as the competition. Those have aged splendidly as well.

[Greg_K]

examples please!

As discussed in our little colloquy, another name I’d throw out (and another Rosenthal imported wine) is Chezeaux’s Suchot, which I think is the best 1er QPR in Burgundy. I agree it’s not quite as built to age as the Lignier though. Two years ago I’d have said Lafarge’s Chenes, but that’s not the case anymore. Maybe Lafarge’s Cailleret now (I quite like Lafarge, so that’s a stylistic argument). I don’t agree on Barthod, which is a producer whose wines I just don’t get. I’ve yet to open a Barthod I’ve really liked.

Chezeaux Suchots is a made up crap wine that doesn’t really exist. People say it’s over-cropped negociant. I don’t know, but people are saying it. Not worth bringing up here.

I’m a huge Barthod fan, but even I am confounded sometimes.

Are you thinking Domaine des Chezeaux or Jerome Chezeaux? Because I’m thinking of the latter, and it’s not negociant.

[Greg_K]

I like but do not love Hubert Lignier’s wines. For a start, for under $200, I would rather have:

Hudelot Noellat Clos Vougeot (paid $150 for the 2017), VR les Suchots or Beaumonts and CM Charmes.
Yvon Clerget Clos Vougeot
d’Angerville Taillepieds
Rossignol-Trapet Chapelle or Laricieres Chambertin
Jouan MSD Clos Sorbes

Also, when I tasted his wines at the Paulee grand tasting at NY this year, I thought there was a huge step down from his Chaffots to his 1er Cru VV. Not sure why you did not mention the Chaffots. It also is under $200, at least according to Wine Searcher.

I don’t like the Chaffots as much. It is definitely far under $200 which is nice. Chaffots was $139! Good deal.

I definitely had Noellat Suchot on my mind as the competition. Those have aged splendidly as well.

I agree with all of this; Chaffots is both a good deal and not as good as the MSD 1er VV.

One of these days I’d really like to do a Suchots tasting with a number of the producers; it’s one of the few Vosne 1ers that’s reasonably price accessible for that sort of thing and has a number of good producers.

[Shan_A]

One of these days I’d really like to do a Suchots tasting with a number of the producers; it’s one of the few Vosne 1ers that’s reasonably price accessible for that sort of thing and has a number of good producers.

I’m down for blinded Suchots tasting

[Greg_K]

One of these days I’d really like to do a Suchots tasting with a number of the producers; it’s one of the few Vosne 1ers that’s reasonably price accessible for that sort of thing and has a number of good producers.

I’m down for blinded Suchots tasting

I wasn’t proposed blinding them - I don’t drink enough Suchot to be able to tell them apart!

[C_Keller]

Prices just went up after this thread started.

[maureen_nelson]

As discussed in our little colloquy, another name I’d throw out (and another Rosenthal imported wine) is Chezeaux’s Suchot, which I think is the best 1er QPR in Burgundy. I agree it’s not quite as built to age as the Lignier though. Two years ago I’d have said Lafarge’s Chenes, but that’s not the case anymore. Maybe Lafarge’s Cailleret now (I quite like Lafarge, so that’s a stylistic argument). I don’t agree on Barthod, which is a producer whose wines I just don’t get. I’ve yet to open a Barthod I’ve really liked.

Chezeaux Suchots is a made up crap wine that doesn’t really exist. People say it’s over-cropped negociant. I don’t know, but people are saying it. Not worth bringing up here.

I’m a huge Barthod fan, but even I am confounded sometimes.

Are you thinking Domaine des Chezeaux or Jerome Chezeaux? Because I’m thinking of the latter, and it’s not negociant.

I am thinking Nathan was trying to tamp down any potential excitement re chezeaux’s suchots.

[Greg_K]

Chezeaux Suchots is a made up crap wine that doesn’t really exist. People say it’s over-cropped negociant. I don’t know, but people are saying it. Not worth bringing up here.

I’m a huge Barthod fan, but even I am confounded sometimes.

Are you thinking Domaine des Chezeaux or Jerome Chezeaux? Because I’m thinking of the latter, and it’s not negociant.

I am thinking Nathan was trying to tamp down any potential excitement re chezeaux’s suchots.

Haha, touche. I had the same concern I visited the Domaine in May and in retrospect should have bought more.

[David_K2]

I admit I had a chuckle at the line of “shooting way past their price point of $170-200,” spoken as if it’s a daily drinker. I guess it is for you.

[Fred_C]

I have a 1999 Gevrey villages teed up for tonight or tomorrow…depending.

Please report back on this. I recently grabbed a few at $80/bottle.

[Keith_Levenberg]

What % of Burgundy is sub-$200? 99.99%? Even among fancy 1er crus, there are boatloads sub-$200, not a shabby assortment of grand crus in that range either. At that point it’s just a matter of taste, not “best.” But Lignier’s been a highly regarded domaine for decades so there is some serious brand value baked into the price - IMO, my Burgundy dollars go further elsewhere… but whatever rings your bell, rings your bell.

[Craig_G]

Prices just went up after this thread started.

Mission accomplished, then!

[George_Chadwick]

Interesting, because our local offline comrade George Chadwick has been buying these for years, and often brings them to dinners. While many have been quite nice, I can’t say I’ve ever thought they were up there with the best Burgs I’ve had. Though I can’t say for sure if we’ve had this particular wine. Isn’t he notorious for new oak?

I think you’re thinking of Dominique Laurent; this is Laurent Lignier. Definitely not a lot of new oak.

I’m easily confused Yes, George does collect Dominique Laurent, but I also have some Hubert Lignier in my notes that he’s brought. Hopefully he’ll see this and chime in.

Alan yes to both. You and I attended a lunch recently where I brought a magnum of 1990 Hubert Lignier Morey St. Denis VV 1990, it was in great shape and showed well. It showed no oak. Fresh and long. I used to buy Hubert Lignier Clos de la Roche 2002 and 2003 (the latter sadly subtitled Cuvee Romain) and would immediately drink them about six years ago. I followed the tragic, then contentious, Lignier saga and learned that Lucie et Auguste Lignier 2004 and 2005 are Hubert Lignier juice at half the price and I’ve drunk a lot of LA Lignier Clos de la Roche and Morey 1er from those vintages and have brought them at least once to our Monday dinner group.

But the oaky guy I bring everywhere is Dominique Laurent. I love 50 percent of his wines. I brought to my June 30 SF tasting his 1993 Nuits St. Georges Les Vaucrains and a leaky (or I would have kept it longer) 2006 Clos de la Roche. Jim Cowan wrote notes here on both wines which I agree with, the former was brisk and excellent IMO, the latter not tasting oaky syrupy but the oak made the flavors muddied and indistinct, which might be a characteristic of 2006 overall.

The best tasting wine I’ve had in 2019 was a Dominique Laurent Les Amoureuses 1992. A couple of years ago I loved his 1994.

[Karl_K]

Second Howard on the Rossignol-Trapet and HN CV and Suchots.

Also Trapet Chapelle is quite nice.

Sub-$100 Henri Magnien 2014 Gevreys are drinking very well, VV fine now Cazetiers still young.

[Karl_K]

Just checked WS - for you SoCal WBerers,
WHWC has 2016 H Magnien Cazetiers for $80.

[George_Chadwick]

One of the wines I brought on vacation this week is Prieure Roch 1999 Suchots, the closest thing there is in pedigree if not quality to a DRC Suchots. I’ll drink it next week. I expect stems. Since Roch’s recent death the prices for his wines greatly exceed quality .

Dominique Laurent’s 1999 Suchots is terrific. His 2003’ s across the board are either roasted coffee, great until the vodka on the finish (Suchots), or the most delicious red fruit I’ve ever had (Ruchottes, Chambolle 1er VV,).