2016 Hubert Lignier Morey St Denis 1er VV - best sub $200 burgundy out there?

In the past few months I’ve had the 2001, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015, 2016 Hubert Lignier Morey St Denis 1er VV and they’ve all been glorious burgundy shooting way past their price point of $170-200. The last few vintages have been utterly spectacular as Laurent is fine tuning it more and more. I’m trying to think of another red burgundy under $200 available on wine-searcher (I don’t want to hear, I paid $100 for my Rousseau chambertin) that hits higher.

Any thoughts?

(below is my quite note on the 2016 I opened last friday)

I’m not sure it’s the best QPR in Burgundy 1ers generally (I’d lean towards no), but Laurent really hit it out of the park in 16. The Clos de la Roche especially is spectacular.

The 1987 of the Vielle Vignes 1er Cru was one of my first two “wow” red burgundy experiences. (The other was a 1990 Pousse d’or Cailleret 60 Ouvrees.)

Incidentally, Neal Rosenthal claims Lignier made great 03s. If anyone cares to try that out, let me know. :slight_smile:

examples please!

Charlie – We enjoyed the '01 together, so you know I’m all-in on these wines when I see them. That said, others I’d put in the same league when it comes to that price point: Barthod Fuees or Cras; Dujac also makes a good MSD 1er cru that is the relative value play in the portfolio. But if I’m honest with myself, none of those truly flirt with GC status, as Lignier’s Baby CdlR does …

OK, I’ll play. I was going to say Mugneret Feusselottes, but then I looked up the prices. Holy shit. I’d throw in Mugneret Chaignots, maybe.

Surprisingly, Barthod Cras has also passed that benchmark for 2015-2016. Maybe her Fuées if it is more your thing but that’s right there around $200 as well. I have a soft spot for the Veroilles but it looks like it is over $200 as well.

Chevillon LSG? Personally, I really like the Cailles but I’m not sure I’d say it was better than the Lignier.

I suppose someone could argue for Esmonin or Jadot CSJ, but I wouldn’t.

All in all, this is a depressing excercise.

Interesting, because our local offline comrade George Chadwick has been buying these for years, and often brings them to dinners. While many have been quite nice, I can’t say I’ve ever thought they were up there with the best Burgs I’ve had. Though I can’t say for sure if we’ve had this particular wine. Isn’t he notorious for new oak?

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Lignier has a nice style that makes the wines usually accessible at some level regardless of age. I think the 1er is in the conversation with Lafarge, D’Angerville, Mugnier, and Arnoux. I would like to try a Lignier Combottes, however, before anointing it the best under $200 in their portfolio.

As discussed in our little colloquy, another name I’d throw out (and another Rosenthal imported wine) is Chezeaux’s Suchot, which I think is the best 1er QPR in Burgundy. I agree it’s not quite as built to age as the Lignier though. Two years ago I’d have said Lafarge’s Chenes, but that’s not the case anymore. Maybe Lafarge’s Cailleret now (I quite like Lafarge, so that’s a stylistic argument). I don’t agree on Barthod, which is a producer whose wines I just don’t get. I’ve yet to open a Barthod I’ve really liked.

I think you’re thinking of Dominique Laurent; this is Laurent Lignier. Definitely not a lot of new oak.

I’m easily confused :wink: Yes, George does collect Dominique Laurent, but I also have some Hubert Lignier in my notes that he’s brought. Hopefully he’ll see this and chime in.

When I was paying attention (up to 2006), the Chambolle “Les Baudes” and the the Gevrey “Combettes” were more spectacular wines. Hubert was selling this wine at “VV” at least as early as the 1988 vintage…when I asked him in 1990, he said the vines were 25 years old. Hmmmmm

I have a 1999 Gevrey villages teed up for tonight or tomorrow…depending.

Kinda hard to imagine a 2+ year old version of that wine would show much for the price. IMO, it’s all in the aging that that wine becomes valuable, and interesting. pileon

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Or are you referring to Georges Lignier? neener

(I think Dominique Laurent has dialed down the oak; pre 1997 or so and post 2002, the oak has gotten less heavy handed. A 2006 Clos de la Roche I had from him was phenomenal, and a 93 Lavaux St. Jacques was lovely in that it was in his pre-oak days. But circa 99…yeah, those are a bit tough if you don’t like oak.)

At Paulee, I thought the 2016 B. Leroux Mazoyeres was in same level of the MSD VV and compared favorably to it. However, it is not easily sourced, although I was able to snag a few bottles for $160. I also liked Gouge’s LSG for ~$155 paid, but imagine most would prefer the MSD VV.

I have not tried these, but would be curious if folks thought these could reach the level:
Hudelot Noellat Suchot $175
Drouhin Laroze Bonnes Mares $150
Arlaud Clos de la Roche $175

This is why I only buy Burgundy from producers who are orphans.

No Moreys or Noellats of any kind for you!

I too prefer the Lignier Combottes, but it is over $200. The only Mugnier that is under $200 is the NSG Marechale and I think the Lignier is better. Lafarge top 1ers are over $200 as is D’Angerville Ducs and Arnoux Suchots.

Chezeaux Suchots is a made up crap wine that doesn’t really exist. People say it’s over-cropped negociant. I don’t know, but people are saying it. Not worth bringing up here.

I’m a huge Barthod fan, but even I am confounded sometimes.

Different wine being made since 2006 on when Laurent took over. Different oak and stem treatment

Maybe not always cherry vintages, but they can be had, save probably for the Suchots at this point [training.gif]

Agreed, but I took the OP to be referring to recent top vintages 2015-2016.

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