Correct. [gheyfight.gif]
Matt… Because you asked a real question, my point was, consumers should buy 09 Cos because they plan on drinking it, not because they hope to resell at a profit.
Marcus… I found 09 Grand Puy Lacoste to be light. I was expecting to like it a lot more than I did. I liked Clerc Milon and d’Armahilac more. As a point of comparison, I thought 05 Grand Puy Lacoste was so good, I bought a second case. For the $50 Pagodes is selling for, it’s a nice wine. If anyone has doubts, when the wine is available, buy a bottle and place it in a blind tasting with 09 Bordeaux in the $75 and under range.
I would not buy Pagodes as a future. But on release, this is a solid wine.
For reference, I recall buying Cos d’Estournel 1996 for less than $70/bottle.
Worth a read:
Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds - Wikipedia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Of all the offspring of Time, Error is the most ancient, and is so old and familiar an acquaintance, that Truth, when discovered, comes upon most of us like an intruder, and meets the intruder’s welcome.”
How many is “many” and how few is “some”? Is it possible that “many” think the wine isn’t great, and “some” think it is? Is there a survey or something that you’re quoting?
Jeff,
I am not saying that one should speculate on 2009 Cos. What I am saying is that there is no reason to pull the trigger BEFORE the wine is released, as the price is likely to stay the same when it does hit the market, and any potential buyer will then have a chance to taste it. Irrespective of Parker’s final score, there is no rush, and if I were interested in the wine, I would buy a bottle, try it and make up my own mind.
You asked what I thought of the 2009 vintage. I kind of liked it; there were some truly spectacular wines, but quality wise, it was a little uneven. Overall, it was a rich opulent vintage, which will not be as long lived as 2005, which I feel is the greatest vintage I have come across, since I began tasting Bordeaux in barrel with the 1989s. Will I buy anything? A few bottles here and there, but not as much I would have, if the prices were not as high. For less money, I can get 1998 right bank, and better examples of the 2000s and 2005.
As for blind tasting the Pagodes against the likes of Branaire, Issan etc I will take that challenge.
Mark… That sounds like a great tasting. I’ll see if we can put together the same tasting out here.
FWIW, I thought 09 d’Issan was the best wine I’d ever tasted from the property. I bought it after tasting it.
I agree with you that 09 is not consistent. For me, at the top end, the wines are stunning expressions of Bordeaux. The best wines from Pomerol are compelling.
*** Brennan. If you want to have a civil discussion, you will need to respond to questions that are being posed to you. I’m not willing to bother with one way discusisons. If you prefer playing with yourself, (and many people do) feel free.
I think he has a valid question - out of all the professional tasters who have had 09 Cos how many loved it and how many not so much?
Matt… While you and I agree on almost nothing in life, when you ask me a question, I try to answer it. When I ask you a direct question, in turn you also respond. That is fair. Brennan does not respond to questions. He only wants to ask them.
In this instance, if he, or you are curious, a search on the Internet will provide the information he’s seeking.
Oh…I’m sure one day we will agree on something!!
![[pillow-fight.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/3/365d4ae6de5fe0cd9e7345760c12ceae1ed5e206.gif "[pillow-fight.gif]")
I don’t think any people say it is poorly made wine…but did they achieve greatness or push the envelope too far?
The 2009 Cos d’Estournel is one of the greatest young wines I have ever tasted … in the world! An extraordinary effort I tasted on two separate occasions, this blend of 65% Cabernet Sauvignon and the rest primarily Merlot with a dollop of Cabernet Franc has a whopping 14.5% alcohol, but a remarkably normal pH of 3.69. Kudos to Jean-Guillaume Prats and owner Michel Reybier for this amazing wine made from yields of 33 hectoliters per hectare. It will be a legendary claret that should last for 50-60 years. A black/purple color is accompanied by aromas of graphite, ink, creme de cassis, blackberries, cedar, and incense. Full-bodied and unctuously textured, with an ethereal personality, tons of nuances, and a burgeoning complexity, it is an enormously well-endowed, fresh, perfectly balanced tour de force in winemaking. As mentioned above, it should drink well for 50-60 years. This wine possesses this vintage’s classic characteristics of enormous power, massive fruit, and extraordinary freshness and precision - largely unprecedented, particularly for Cabernet-based wines in the Medoc. (Tasted two times). Drink 2010-2070.
Score: 98-100 Robert Parker, Wine Advocate (188), April 2010
Tasted twice on separate occasions at the property. Stylistically, the Cos d’Estournel sets itself apart from the entire Left Bank, though I am uncertain whether this is a positive thing. Coming in with an IPT of 99 and tangible 14.5% alcohol, it is endowed with an extremely rich, decadent nose with macerated black cherries, cassis, a touch of crème de menthe, melted chocolate and a hint of fig. This is an extremely powerful nose that bears more relationship with the Douro than the Gironde. It is endowed with Leviathan tannins that form a massive, arching structure, moderate acidity, the power seeming to dominate the finish at the expense of a little finesse. This is a Cos d’Estournel that wants to make a bold impression. Leaving it for 15-20 minutes there is a change in the glass, becoming rounder and more harmonized, certainly some of the heat dissipating and yet one has to question whether stylistically, it has forsaken its identity as quintessential Saint Estephe? Another sample with one hour decanting with a little smoother and yet still showed a little hardness and alcohol on the finish. Tasted March 2010.
Score: 89-91 Neal Martin, eRobertParker.com, April 2010
This smells like Harlan a bit. Supercharged in fruit, with intense aromas of tar, spice, cardamon, clove, blackberry and black pepper. Crazy nose. Full-bodied, with masses of fruit, yet focused and in form. Chewy tannins, with great length. This goes on and on. Incredibly exotic. Could be best ever from here?
Score: 97-100 James Suckling, WineSpectator.com, March 2010
Very dark indeed. Blackish crimson. Not much scent though obviously very ripe. Firmer than some of the more obvious Napa Valley-style wines in 2009 with the tannins much more obvious. But a coolness on the finish. This may come round eventually. It is much more demanding than most 2009s and will need SO long. A very exaggerated wine with a bit of a hole in the middle. A definite lack of freshness. Does remind me a little bit of Pavie 2003. To be generous I’m assuming that in the far distant future it may resolve itself but I can’t quite understand why they let the grapes get so ripe. Harvest dates are pretty similar to Ch Latour but the results are very different. . why they let the grapes get so ripe. Harvest dates are pretty similar to Ch Latour but the results are very different. 14.5%. Date tasted 1st April 2010. Drink 2024-2040.
Score: 16.5+ Jancis Robinson MW, JancisRobinson.com, April 2010
Superb black red, very full and spicy, very broadly structured, really quite massive (14.5abv) and will take years to pick up finesse, a ‘baroque’ almost Porty wine, explosively rich and definitely impressive if not a typical Saint-Estèphe. Drink 2018-40.
Score: 18.5 Steven Spurrier, Decanter.com, April 2010
The nose is not giving a lot at this stage although behind all of the tightness there are rich black fruits. Hard tannins show on the palate surrounding the fruit, a steel banded cage. The core is quite sweet with lots of cassis and black cherry and with time the fruit should emerge. Drink 2024-2050.
Score: 90-94 Derek Smedley MW, April 2010
The 2009 is a controversial wine, an all out attempt to produce a claret that bludgeons the taster into submission. There’s no denying the quality of the fruit - or the investment that has been made in the vineyard and cellar here - but this seems OTT to me, closer to a Shiraz than a red Bordeaux in style and flavour. A massive, super-charged number that will divide opinions. 15+ years.
Score: 95 Tim Atkin MW, April 2010
(a blend of 65% cabernet sauvignon, 33% merlot, and 2% cabernet franc; 80% new oak; 33 hectoliters per hectare; 14.5% alcohol; IPT 99; 56% selection for the grand vin Inky purple. Extremely ripe aromas of red fruits macerated in alcohol, espresso and dark chocolate (almost Banyuls- or port-like), with a more refreshing floral element emerging with aeration. Enters the mouth smooth, sweet and floral, with a velvety texture, but then turns slightly hollow in the mid-palate, hinting at overripe red cherry and dark plum flavors. Finishes dry and a touch astringent (heat-stressed merlot?). By no means a bad wine, but this version of Cos has more in common with a late-harvested negroamaro from southern Italy or an overripe fruit bomb from Napa than a fine Medoc wine. As much as I liked the 2008, I find this wine overdone, and I don’t believe it will improve much with time. 88-90? points Ian D’Agata IWC
Probably not. We can’t even agree on this. [middle-finger.gif] 
If Brennan wants to ask a serious question on wine, fine. But I’m not interested in spending my time debating with him how many is many, and how few is few.
Life is far too short. I’d rather drink Burgs or Aussie wines! ![[rofl.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/a/a7452fcd8e675af869f8da01174474a545b03944.gif "rofl"){kind=small}
PS. I just saw your last post. Isn’t that a bit of selective editing from the Farr site? You forget to include the first note from the owner of the Farr, Stephan Browett.
Cos was good in the 1990’s but since the 2001 vintage, the quality here has reached another level. Jean-Guillaume Prats has been given total control by the owner, Michel Reybier, to produce the best wine possible. His avowed aim here is to make wine of First Growth quality at less than half the price. The stunning new winery may be the final piece in the jigsaw. It is the most modern and sophisticated in all of Bordeaux, with the world’s only 100% gravity cellar - no pumps used at all. Cos is now battling it out with Léoville Lascases, Ducru Beaucaillou, Pichon Lalande and Palmer as the Médoc’s best non-First Growth and in 2008 we felt that quality was touching that of the First Growths. The 2008 was showing very well when we tasted it again, but the 2009 is another step up into First Growth territory. The blend is 68% Cabernet Sauvignon, 31% Merlot and 1% Cabernet Franc. The grapes were harvested in perfect conditions from very low yields (31hl/ha), which meant that very little selection was necessary in the winery. This yield compares to 45 hl/ha in 2005.This is like looking down into a pot of black gloss paint. A massive nose suggests melted road tar, black olives, pepper and Asian spices. The palate is huge and powerful with a stunning concentration of fruit that is more than a match for the intense, but hardly noticeable, tannins. It is totally obvious that this is one of the wines of the vintage and probably the greatest Cos ever made. It will probably eclipse even the outstanding wines made here in 2003 and 2005. If this wine doesn’t end with 100 points we will be amazed.
Score: 19.5
This is good information to know as I rather enjoying buying these on the current market for $110-$120/btl. Lovely bottle of Cos!
I would gladly purchase 3 bottles of '96 for 1 bottle of '09 Cos, but maybe I’m just one of the few tired of the hype and persistent marketing.
I think this can be applied to many situations over the last several years - but, when mathematical models prevail over common sense, usually people’s pocketbooks get abused.
Can you tell I bit on a few bottles of the GPL ![[basic-smile.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/83717c74df9b0ce202453063bc4f11baf0ee6b8a.gif "smile"){kind=small}
? Amazing how quickly we start to identify with “our” wines. I like fruit but I value freshness a lot, so I don’t mind “light” wines unless they are really green/seriously acidic/tart, which used to be an issue back in the day but I’m confident will not be a problem in 2009 at this level.
Thanks for the tip on the d’Armailhac…interesting reviews and looks to be available for a fine price. I’ve had a few bad experiences with it in the past (even in 2000) but the descriptions are of a wine I’d like.
I didn’t include the Browett writeup in b/c I have no idea who he is…
I also forgot:
John Gilman’s note: The 2009 Cos d’Estournel is one of the worst young wines I have ever had to taste, as it displays an utter contempt for both the history of its region and the intelligence of its clients. The wine is ultra-late harvest in style, with a ridiculously high level of alcohol, nothing but overripe flavors and a savage coating of raw, uncured oak to add insult to injury on the palate. The hydric stress of the summer clearly played havoc at Cos, and the team decided to let the grapes hang out there no matter where the sugars went in search of physiological ripeness for the skin tannins- rather an absurd approach when one was going to whack the wine with fifty percent new wood and fifty percent one wine barrels that were going to leach plenty of wood tannin into the finished wines in any event. The wine will admit to 14.5 percent alcohol on the label, but this is absurd, as the wine is clearly well over fifteen percent alcohol and is notably hot on the backend. The syrupy and simple nose offers up an overripe smorgasbord of black cherry syrup, prunes, coffee grounds and plenty of raw, poorly cured new oak. On the palate the wine is deep, very full-bodied and has the viscosity of motor oil (though motor oil would probably be more pleasurable to drink), with absolutely no semblance of balance, a thick wall of prunes in the mid-palate and a completely undrinkable, raw oak and green skin tannin finish of impressive disdain. The combination of extremely overripe flavors and aromatics, poorly cured oak that has leached tannin into this monstrosity on an unprecedented level for a Classed Growth and the scorching heat on the finish make this an amazingly unpleasant wine to taste- I cannot imagine having to drink it. This is a train wreck of monumental proportions. ??? 67-68.
Marcus… From what you wrote, you will probably like 09 Grand Puy Lacoste.
The following tasters also chimed in on 2009 Cos. Rene Gabriel scored the wine 20/20, The Revue de France gave it 18/5, Decanter called it 18.5 and Michel Bettane from Bettane Desauve awarded it 17.5.
When you look back at a vintage like 1982, a lot of writers did not like the vintage when it was first tasted. Parker was not the only writer who loved the wines. He was not alone in his praise. There were others, But the truth is, at the time a lot of people called the wines early drinkers, because they tasted too good from the start.
If a vintage like 2000 had been produced 20 years ago, it would have been slammed for being over the top. The best 2003 wines from Pauillac and St. Estephe were not held in the same regard as 2000 when they were first tasted. Today, a lot of people who taste these often are changing their minds on those 2003 wines.
Here’s my guess, and this is only a guess, in 20 years, wines like 09 Cos will be looked at in the same way people think about wines like 47 Cheval. It might seem extreme today, but times, tastes and people change.
From my lips to God’s ears, I hope we are all around to see how it played out.
Don’t worry about it Matt. Although some people are easily fooled, many people realize that Jeff likes to create distractions, change the topic, and bully people with red herrings and other rhetorical devices. He’s the one putting himself out there as an eminent Bordeaux blobber, so if he doesn’t want to engage, he should simply feel free to ignore my questions and assertions. For instance, based on past history, I expect to soon get a question about how many times I’ve tasted the wine, whether I’ve hosted Prats at my house or written an article, or suggesting I post a tasting note, etc. None of which is relevant, but that’s how it typically goes.
PS - While we’re at it, who said anything about professional tasters? I believe he used the word “many” in the context of “people who have tasted the wine.” No mention of pros was made, and clearly, as Jeff has tasted it, not all people who have tasted the wine are necessarily professional critics. I’m was just wondering what knowledge allows him to make such grandiose statements.
FWIW last night WTSO had 06 Cos for $79.99…
I’d call that the “double wooden-nickel.”
I love how someone asks to know what people are saying about the wine…you tell us you are not going to do peoples homework for them - if they need the info they can go out on the internet and get it…
and then you tell me i used “selective editing” in retrieving information from said internet…
There is no winning with you is there?
I hope for your sale that the 2009 Cos turns out to be as legendary as the 47 cheval blanc - and I commend you on taking a position on something and sticking with it…but all I can tell you is that in the world of subjectivity - saying one side is right and one side is wrong could end up making you look like a clown.