17 Charlopin Chambolle AC and WHWC mini gripe

WINE TALK
1

The 3 domaines that WHWC (well, mostly Kyle smith) has heavily pushed that are out of the mainstream are Henri Magnien, Domaine Desaunay Bissey and Charlopin.

I have gotten a couple bottles of each just to try, and I haven’t had the Domaine Desaunay Bissey yet, but the other two have been pretty underwhelming.

Supposedly Philippe Charlopin has been influenced by his wife (Cecile Tremblay), but that doesn’t seem to be the case. The 17 Chambolle still has a BUNCH of oak. It’s not a bad wine but his use of new oak isn’t exactly subtle.

I can’t complain too much since I got a bunch of 08 comtes from them but…

2

you just have to find a merchant whose palate aligns with yours. When Steve Zanotti of WineEx liked something, I usually did also. But now you know.

3

Neil Rosenthal is probably the closest for me.

4

I like Neal’s portfolio a lot, but he’s neither a merchant nor a retailer.

5

Neal Rosenthal isn’t a merchant? [scratch.gif]

6

Importer I guess?

I like Rosenthal’s portfolio as well. Tons of good stuff in there.

7

???

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8

Does he no longer have retail outlet on UES?

9

Technically not Neal’s. Careful legal distinction there!

10

It’s been a very long time since Neal sold wine directly to consumers. He’s an importer, he’s not a merchant. Hasn’t been for a long time.

11

You buy from WHWC directly Michael, but I don’t think you buy from Neal directly. I also know the Rosenthal portfolio well and really like it (I buy more Rosenthal wines than Burgundy from any other importer), but it also has wines I don’t like and wines that I’d call oaky. Yet I’d never say Neal recommends wines to me that I don’t like, because Neal doesn’t sell me wine! It would be great if he did, I’d get to cut out the middle man.
And isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? If you’re suggesting you like Neal’s book as an importer better, then sure, I’d agree with that. But when you say merchant…I have to assume you’re referring to retailers since you bought the wine from WHWC.

12

Since when is the word “merchant” limited to one who sells directly to consumers? Neal doesn’t just import wine for his personal use. He imports wine and sells it to retailers. He supplies goods for trade. You know - a merchant.
A

13

See my post above. Michael was complaining about wine sold to him directly by a retailer. who happened to import a few producers. If that’s the case, I didn’t see the point of comparing the retailer to Neal, since Michael can’t buy wines from him. Otherwise the comparison makes no sense.

If you want to use the “merchant” term generally, sure, I have no objection - but in this case it seemed apposite. By this argument, Coche is a merchant, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what was meant. Anyway, I think I’ve unintentionally hijacked this thread, so apologies for that.

Neal’s portfolio is indeed, very good. Please carry on.

14

You’re drawing a pointless distinction. Klwm and whwc can sell direct to consumer because of the laws in their state. They all import the wines from the wineries.

15

Reflections of a “be fucked’d if we know what Neal is”?

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16

I think that these are not NBI wines, right? I avoid Magnien largely because of the NBI selections, which (in the days I first experienced them in the '90s) were heavily oaked selections for NBI. I held onto a lone bottle of Charmes-Chambertin from Magnien NBI Selection and drank it circa 2007. It was fine enough, but still wore a heavy wood signature that just wasn’t in my wheelhouse.

fred

17

There are five different Magniens. Frédéric Magnien is imported by NBI. The Magnien in question is Henri Magnien, who have been on the rise for the last few vintages: I first noticed with their very nice 2015s, and the 2019s are another step up. The wines use quite modest percentages of new oak (the exception used to be their Ruchottes-Chambertin, but we talked about that and they changed their approach). I am a fan and think they are well worth trying.

18

I know I am contributing to the thread drift, but my understanding is that Rosenthal has operated like Grand Cru, Wilson Daniels, Kermit Lynch, Rare Wine, Weygandt, and many other importers/distributors for many years now. I.e., they maintain a hefty private client list that accounts for a substantial portion of their gross. What percentage, I don’t know. As with everyone else, they do it because the margins are much better. So I think they are a “retailer” in the sense that they sell directly to individual customers. For legal reasons they may route those sales through a separately owned retail license holder, but I have no doubt that they control that book at the importer level.

This, of course, is why retailers are so frustrated with some importers. They are expected to support the entire portfolio, but the most sought after wines are being heavily allocated to the private client channel. Which is one reason why your local retailer that used to get two cases of Lignier CDR now only gets three bottles. And why, to take one example, Comte Liger Belair is headed in the direction of not being “retailed” whatsoever in the traditional sense.

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19

I opened one bottle of the 17 h Magnien cazetiers and did think it had potential. I liked it much more than this Charlopin. I had half a bottle left of the Charlopin and had maybe half a glass before pouring the rest out, which is a really rare occurrence for me.

I think I have one bottle of 16 Charlopin Clos st denis and one bottle of 15 la justice left, which I hope are palatable.

William do you know any idea how much oak he’s using nowadays?

20

Interesting that Philippe’s use of new oak is so high. His son Yann spent some time with him but on his own (Domaine Charlopin-Tissier) I’ve never detected any new oak across the handful of vintages I’ve sampled so far (including ‘18, which is obviously quite primary).