Have been going back and forth since yesterday, but with Beta’s release letter today have to step aside and hope to get shot at the 21’s… All-in with whatever allocated by Ketan on his 21’s.
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this is correct - Abreu trademarked the name “Thorevilos” … has he announced where he sources the fruit for the new label?
Yes, it’s a new vineyard. However, some snooping shows the new site is very close to Ecotone… obviously the goal is for something similar in terms of the quality of grapes, curious to see how close he gets to the mark.
In this thread Justin states the new Thorevilos is from the ex-Arns vineyard.
This whole shift to trademarking vineyard names despite switching the location of the source fruit (similar to constellation doing/attempting to do this with to kalon) is beyond disconcerting and somewhat baffling to me outside of the obvious money grab. Wine should be named for it’s origin, otherwise the name becomes meaningless
What if DRC trademarked La Tache and then put meiomi in a bottle marked “La Tache”… just makes no sense
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It’s not baffling to me. It’s business. If someone is too ignorant or pompous to know better, they are an easy mark.
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Came back and thought about this. Wonder why the stylistic shift when it seems the initial goal of this project was a rendition of what the old Forman wines used to be. Is the 21 no longer of that old-school style?
Don’t go digging into Bordeaux and what can go into a Grand Vin from non-contiguous vineyards…
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Correct - a bit of PV and Merlot as well, but vintage will dictate the blend. That said, Ecotone is generally a core component along with VHR and M-Bar.
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Right, key line there being “outside of the obvious money grab”
Just demonstrates zero respect for your product or what youve built in that name. Strips it of all it’s meaning essentially
But, as you said, an easy mark…
No, the 2021 was still crafted in the old-school style. if i recall, it was just a bit riper than then 19. Perhaps the term “quite different” was incorrect on my end, but rather at a different stage of evolution. I’m not sure if anyone else at the dinner would say it was constructed differently, but the 19 was the first go around and they are obviously trying to fine tune both farming/vineyard/style of the wine.
I can’t say I’ve tasted any old Forman or Thorevilos so it would be hard for me to compare, but i think @Roy_Piper put it best in his assessment back in March.
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Are Bordeaux considered “single vineyard” or “vineyard designate” wines? I had never thought of them that way.
I wouldn’t say this is at all like old Forman. Personally I felt that the 2019 and 2021 001 were fairly similar to each other and both a bit of modern and old school Napa - strong fruit, lot of power, but also balanced and strong tannic structure. I wasn’t drinking wine in the 1990’s so I don’t know how they tasted new back then, but 20 year old Forman was much more leather and mint and minimal fruit. Hard to say how the 001 will evolve in 20 years but I guess we will find out 
This more modernish style is certainly more drinkable early though.
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For those wondering, it looks like plenty of us are refusing to buy this latest 2020 release as some wine is still available.
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Yea, I had a period of fomo but between the price and having not tried the wines, it was hard to pull the trigger, so I didn’t. Plus I don’t really purchase wine at that price per bottle anyway.
When Tidings came on the scene it was an easier decision because the wines were reasonably priced and I was glad I had purchased after trying them. Same goes for Beta.
If I don’t get an allocation next year, oh well.
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There is also like 200 more cases of the 20 vs the 19/21 given the extra MacD fruit. So an interesting dynamic
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Thanks for reminding me about that and next year’s release will go back down to 307 cases.
I was in Napa over the weekend and dropped by Ecotone Vineyard and Jack for a quick walk around. Really a special place, survived the 2020 fires (still remnants of burned trees around the exterior). Probably a few days from starting to pick most of the fruit (though the Merlot was already picked clean).
If there evidence right around exterior of vineyard of fire, how could the ‘20 be smoke free?
Clearly they are asserting there isnt any in the wines. And i have no reason to say otherwise, just an interesting observation that triggered a question.
The only way would be if the fruit was harvested before the fire but I have no idea if that is the case.
Or if it was the case, why it’s not being made into MacDonald