Your Top German Riesling Vintages ?

WINE TALK
21

Sadly I have not tasted much post 2008 with only a couple of 14’s, but my favorites would be 01, 90 and 04.

22

+1

Before that, in the MSR, I really like 1997 and 1994.

23

1997 took some time, but when it came around it really came around.

24

It’s fantastic.

25

I don’t think I have much to add to the older vintages, because a lot has been said already.

On the more recent vintages, sweet 2010s can be outstanding due to their exceptional levels of acidity and I’ve had a good handful of dry 2010s as well. However, not all 2010s have been successful and some very unbalanced wines were made in that vintage as well, and some 2010 dry Rieslings have even felt surprisingly advanced, a few almost tertiary. Nevertheless, the top wines are probably the best ones I’ve had from the past decade.

2015 is a close second. It was hyped, but for a good reason - a huge number of wines from that year have been spectacular. An outstanding combination of ripe yet not too ripe fruit, very high acidity and remarkable intensity. 2017 feels like a baby 2015 in the making; very similar in style, only slightly behind in acidity and intensity. I believe both vintages are made for the long haul, although they have lots of charm already now.

I’ve heard lots of good about 2019, but haven’t had enough to have a coherent picture yet.

Many 2018s I’ve had have been very ripe, but many have been also rather soft and ponderous at times, coming across as relatively similar to 2011 when they were young - and seeing how many 2011s are getting tired and dull already, it doesn’t feel that promising. If 2018 is following in 2011s steps, I can imagine it is not going to be a particularly long-lived vintage as a whole.

2012 and 2016 were quite nondescript vintages. Nothing bad there, just nothing that would make them particularly memorable.

2013 and 2014 were quite good; 2013 with higher acidity and more precision, but rather understated fruit - 2014 with a bit lower acidity but more fruit and concentration. However, both eclipsed by the 2015 that followed.

These are just general rules or guidelines I’ve developed by tasting German wines throughout the whole country, and there are always lots of exceptions to them. For example many Mosel Kabinetts from 2018 have been wonderfully fresh and precise and some Pfalz 2017s have been quite linear and nondescript, not showing the boldness and harmony typical of the vintage. There are lots of outstanding wines made in every vintage, one just needs to look for them. But when one needs to select a few vintages without knowing anything about the wines, I’d say 2015 and 2017 are the best bets. 2010 as well, if the wine has some sweetness.

26

another vote for 1975

had a 75er Schloss Eltz Rauenthaler Baiken Spätlese at a swish joint in Vienna coupla years back (130 € on the list)
– one Easter evening after an inspirational »Parsifal« at the Staatsoper« –
that was nothing short of spectacular – and the sommelier served it in Burgundy glasses
which was a very good idea

27

Let us not forget 1998 in the Pfalz.

28

Thanks Otto! Very useful…

29

Gonna strongly disagree with Otto for 2014, at least when it comes to the Mosel (but pretty good in the Pfalz). I think it’s the weakest vintage in a long while.

And 2012 is really an excellent vintage to me. Really beautiful, balanced wines with great precision and transparency.

30

Yeah, I have a very different opinion of both 2012 and 2014 from Otto’s take.

My real question for Otto is about 2011/2018. I have tasted some 2011 GG, Kabinett and Spatlese in recent months. Yes, they are softer wines due to the vintage conditions, but I do not see them tiring at all. In fact I think they have yet to fully shed the baby fat (sweeter wines). Nine years is way too soon to be calling other than really basic/lesser wines “tired”, unless one is purely enamored with the youthful energy of young German Riesling, and nothing else.

31

I’ll give you that at last David has much more experience with German Rieslings that you can trust basically everything that he says on this matter.

However, I was talking about German Riesling vintages as a whole, not just Mosel vintages. I concur that in Mosel the 2014 vintage is definitely very uneven, but the good ones are still good. Most other regions performed much better. Nevertheless, it’s not a vintage I’d look for specifically.

To me, 2012 has been nondescript in the sense that while the wines are very precise and showing high acidity, many 2013s have been stylistically pretty similar but showing more fruit and depth as well. Having tasted some 2012s and 2013s side-by-side, the 2013s often have been just better, more balanced and overall just more interesting in comparison. I hope 2012s become more interesting with age in the hopes they develop more depth and tertiary complexity over the years.

And by 2011 getting tired, I really mean it. Even some higher-level Rieslings have came across surprisingly evolved and showing relatively tertiary qualities - and often rather conspicuous levels of alcohol - whereas 2012s and 2013s tasted at the same time have been still very youthful and showing no age whatsoever. Mosel definitely performed much better in this year - compared to other regions that have felt also quite extracted and ponderous in comparison - as I haven’t tasted any 2011 Mosel wines that would’ve come across as prematurely evolved. However, many of them have felt just too soft and round for my taste. I can imagine that many of the best 2011 Spätlesen and Kabinett wines from the top producers have been really great, but as a whole it’s not a vintage I’d buy - especially if I haven’t tasted the wine before. To me, of the vintages from 2010 onward, 2011 is by far the least interesting. It’s hard to say anything conclusive about 2018 at this point, but stylistically it has felt pretty similar and thus doesn’t show much promise to me.

And just to make it clear, I definitely am not one to go after the explosively young Rieslings. With almost every style of wine, I prefer age and tertiary complexity over primary qualities.

32

Interesting comments Otto.

2012 shut down hard very quickly post-vintage. I’m confident the wines will re-emerge.

I shall have to grab a few more 2011s. I disagree based on what I have tasted, but it’s no burden to taste more.

33

It is definitely possible that I’ve caught the 2012s at a poor time, since I didn’t taste them much back when they were released. Many of the wines have felt quite underwhelming compared to the surrounding vintages, but I have no reasons believe they wouldn’t evolve into something much better with age.

And when it comes to Riesling, I’m a hardcore acid-head. I suppose it’s not a wonder the two lower-acid vintages of the 2010s have not been up my alley? [stirthepothal.gif]

34

Otto, I don’t think I’ve seen an acid-loving German Riesling lover dis 2012 before as a whole. To the contrary. Personally I back buy the vintage when I see attractive offers.

Following up on my answer above, beyond classic vintages 1983 and before, only a few people have mentioned 1990s vintages. My favorites are 1990, 1996-1997, and 1998 Pfalz although this list could be heavily influenced by when I started buying on release (1996-97 in the market). 1993-95 are really good too in MSR and Nahe. My personal favorites here if we are taking vintage as a whole in MSR are 90 and 96. The 96s could be teeth chattering young but now stand out for me for precision, complexity, and depth.

35

If we’re going further back, I can include some 1990s vintages that I tasted on release. I loved 1996 when it first hit the stage, but then it got weird for a very long time. 1995 is the first vintage I tasted widely on release, so I have a soft spot for it. 1998 is another favorite, highly influenced by the stellar year at Müller Catoir. I screwed up on 1997, turned off by a small number of subpar early showings. What I still have is wonderful now.

36

I have a question from a novice for the more experienced Riesling fanatics. I will preface my question by saying that vintage charts and a number of reviews cannot be trusted. Also, I personally tend to drink a vast majority for the Mosel area, but like all areas.

My question is that I have seen a lot of love in my “studies” for both the 2001 and 2005 vintages (and the 2009 vintage to a lesser extent) especially in the higher pradikat levels. Are these vintages too ripe/fruit forward for a lot of people’s taste and for long term cellaring?

I have noticed a lot of love on here for the more acidic vintages which allow for a bit more long term enjoyment. However, I was wondering if the 2001, 2005, and 2009 vintages fall into the “good/great vintage” category that just lack a bit of acidity. I have seen some love for 2001 above, but not much on 05 and 09.

I have done a lot of research, but haven’t had enough personal experience yet to really have enough data/experience to really have a strong personal preference yet. In the end, it will really come down to my personal preference and I know it really depends on the producer and area. However, I love to hear from people on here who’s expertise and experience I very much respect. This thread is great for someone like myself to learn from individuals with more experience. Thank you for everyone who has posted.

37

If something I do love in 2012s has been their acidity. However, on the fruit department many of the wines have been relatively linear and underwhelming, lacking much of the depth and intensity the best ones can offer. But, as I just said, it might just be that the great majority of the 2012s I’ve had have been caught in a closed phase.

38

2001 is a marvelous vintage. Best in my drinking lifetime. It’s strongest in the Mosel, but still excellent elsewhere. 2001 is in now way a “too ripe” year. It’s the best balanced vintage in my experience. 2005 is also excellent, but richer and lower in acidity than 2001. I prefer 2001 by a pretty wide margin, but never turn down a 2005.

2001 QbA/Estate Rieslings and Kabinetts are really singing now. Spatlese is also showing very well. I think Auslese is still a little young.

2005s are also going to evolve for a very long time.

39

Thanks David.

That’s great to hear. I do tend to stick to model mostly to start and am learning more and branching out with the help of others on here. So a lot of what I have read about and tasted is Mosel centric. Thanks so much for the response.

40

Go find Schaefer #14 Auslese. Then we can continue discussing fruit in 2012. [cheers.gif]