Yet another thread on the ageability of California Cabs

[Anton_D]

Part answer:

If you want to find a new release wine that is as close in character as possible to past releases, try A Rafanelli and La Jota Cabernets.

When I pop open a new release Rafanelli, I am transported back in time.

You can then shop for older vintages of these wines and see what you think.

Add Diamond Creek to the list with the caveat that I am way behind on budget for trying these as new releases these days.

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

@J Dove

@Brian S t o t t e r

This is why I’m on the lookout for non-Parkerized wines still being produced in CA (e.g. Dunn, Ridge, Togni) and new producers looking to move away from the Parker trend.

What does Parkerized mean? If you stack ranked wine producers average rating for the last 30 years, I’ll bet Togni would land near the top of Parker’s scale.

For me it’s high alcohol, extracted wines with immediate appeal that may not hold up as well with long-term cellaring. Often so rich that I don’t feel like drinking more than a glass.

[Steve_Crawford]

@Wes Barton

I think various high end CA Cabs are filling different niches, so there isn’t really a paradigm shift. But, there is a resurgence of some classicists in the mix. Maybe the extreme is Eisele Vineyard, now owned by Chateau Latour. From '13 on, these are very structured great wines that will need time. They’re doing some really exciting things, like looking back to what practices lead to the greatness of the some of the Napa Cabs of yesteryear, as well as modern scientific understanding, tailoring different practices to the needs and challenges of different blocks, etc.

your post couldn’t be more vague. that sounds like some bs marketing that was fed by a wine ‘educator’.

[Wes_Barton]

@Steve Crawford

@Wes Barton

I think various high end CA Cabs are filling different niches, so there isn’t really a paradigm shift. But, there is a resurgence of some classicists in the mix. Maybe the extreme is Eisele Vineyard, now owned by Chateau Latour. From '13 on, these are very structured great wines that will need time. They’re doing some really exciting things, like looking back to what practices lead to the greatness of the some of the Napa Cabs of yesteryear, as well as modern scientific understanding, tailoring different practices to the needs and challenges of different blocks, etc.

your post couldn’t be more vague. that sounds like some bs marketing that was fed by a wine ‘educator’.

Note that your response here is vague, too.

What do you want? There are old school producers who haven’t changed much over the decades (some examples have been posted), there are new producers re-examining the best practices of the past (which Paul Draper makes a non-specific reference to, if you watched my vid-link), and there are established wineries doing the same. I gave an example. So? You’re accusing me of both being vague and shilling for that? Seems contradictory. The point is they’re far from the only ones. Wouldn’t elaborating more on one example seem even more like BS marketing?

[GregT]

There you go with your vague self again.

Sheesh.

This is more of a question than anything, but someone mentioned the replanting with different clones.

Does anyone know how diverse clones were back in the 1970s and 1980s? Rootstock and scion? Seems like that is an era that has ended where today we’re more interested in monovarietal, monoclonal vineyards, and as much as anything else, that’s had to have an effect on what shows up in the market.

[Wes_Barton]

@GregT

Does anyone know how diverse clones were back in the 1970s and 1980s? Rootstock and scion? Seems like that is an era that has ended where today we’re more interested in monovarietal, monoclonal vineyards, and as much as anything else, that’s had to have an effect on what shows up in the market.

Not broadly, but a sort of second wave (first big one was the 1880s wine boom where a lot of Cab was planted in the Saratoga and Cupertino hills) here came from Emmet Rixford’s La Quest Vineyard, which was planted with cuttings from Chateau Margaux (in the same varietal proportion). Martin Ray got his cuttings from there for his Mount Eden Vineyard, as have others, and others got cuttings from Martin Ray/Mount Eden (incl. Kathryn Kennedy and Cooper Garrod). Current Mount Eden and Ridge have quite a selection of clones.

I think broadly - what I hear from more progressive growers, at least - is the monoclonal thing was a mindset of the past, and is fading away when vineyards are replanted.