I was reading back through 3 very long and interesting threads here, the Premier Cru, the Allan Meadows and the Rudy thread and it struck me how similar the arguments of some of the defenders of the villains (AM, PC, Acker, etc) were to the blatant sexist mansplaining you see in areas like tech, gamergate etc. Do we have our own verb, winesplaining?

verb informal
gerund or present participle: winesplaining
(willfully ignorant wine snob) explaining (something) to a wine board that defies facts and logic, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.
"I’m reading a post where a guy winesplains how John Kapon was the victim of market forces.

Some hall of fame quotes (note some are just plain sexist, but help sell my point):

From Premier Cru thread: "The vengeance and vitriole of the repeat attacks on PC in this thread by scads of those in the business (who have long lost business to PC and disliked them for going outside the bankrupt three tier system) suggests to me that its likely ITB folks and a few morons who didn’t understand the PC model of buy on future and be patient who complained to Wine-Searcher. "

“The simplest and most likely explanation is that all wines purchased by PC are pre-arrival initially…To say this is evidence of nefarious business practices requires a leap of logic that baffles me.”

“Do we have confirmation of the bounced check(s)? I know it’s been alleged, but has anyone who’s posted here received one? (Ariamali, put your hand down, we’re not calling on you.)…people change jobs all the time and it’s usually not a sign that a business is about to go belly up. Is the turnover at PC significantly higher than at their industry peers? If not, then the departure of one or more employees doesn’t by itself mean much at all. Maureen’s very brief entry into this thread tells us nothing since she herself hasn’t offered any useful information, either about her activities in this matter or about Premier Cru itself.”

" I like Maureen, I’ve met her, I respect her work greatly and have reached out to her on a couple occasions and she’s been very helpful. But one thing I will say is that she has a tendency to name-drop her closeness to the FBI, federal prosecutors, etc. in order to sound impressive, whether or not she is actually actively involved in any specific investigation"

“Again, you seem to be mistaking your characterization of an issue for the objective truth about that issue; you’re also making the unproven(!) assumption that you’re wiser than the many satisfied PC customers. It must frustrate you no end that people can be so dense that they simply cannot appreciate your interpretation of their reality.”

"Just because a person filed a lawsuit does not make their claim correct or winnable. Ask one of the numerous lawyers on the board about that. I imagine we’d all be surprised at how many suits are filed against the companies we work with, or buy products from everyday. "

“and let’s not forget for all he is ACCUSED of, Rudy was among the most generous openers of wine the world has known, anyone who opens alot, inevitably is let down for a variety of reasons, only one of which is incorrect label to wine presentation.”

“I’m sure what you say is true Maureen, but you have a style of communication that I really struggle with. Maybe (probably) it’s just me but a little more humility would be attractive. Being a good winner is important.”

“Since my post someone is showing that burghound still does events with Acker which is nice secondary information but it is still not of importance. It seems the assumption is acker pays off burghound to make high scores on fake wine and to me it isn’t rational as burghound isn’t going to give up his career. But again moreover just as no one else would want done to them what has been to burghound here I think it is unethical to try to disparage a person where there aren’t facts.”

“Yeah. Nobody has ever criticized “male wine experts” on this board.”

I love the term but I think what you describe is different from what I would call winesplaining. Described above is using winesplaining and a variety of defensive arguments to defend an unfortunate position. Some of it was just regular mansplaining or outright sexism. Most of those folks were defending their position because they had invested time and energy into a brand, person, or otherwise and could face the facts piling up that showed they’d been duped.

I’d say winesplaining would be more like:
“Unabashed wine snobbery that is condescending to the recipient where they explain why the other party doesn’t get it.”

Examples include, when a Burg snob hops on a tasting note thread of some CA Pinot just to tell the OP that he/she only likes this wine because they don’t understand Burgundy yet. Or when someone bashes a wine for being way too oaky while inferring (or outright saying) that anyone who likes that wine is a fool for doing so.

You left out the best thread though… Ray Walker & Maison Ilan updates - the saga has ended...(updated) - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers See you in a couple weeks. [cheers.gif]

LOL, Brian, I was about to mention MaisonIlansplaining.

Sorry… which is the sexist one?

I thought mansplaining was when a guy kept his pubic hairs neatly trimmed

I’d say winesplaining would be more like:
"Unabashed wine snobbery that is condescending to the recipient where they explain why the other party doesn’t get it
I am a gold medal winesplainer


This. Frankly I love the term (with the above definition).

“I’m sure what you say is true Maureen, but you have a style of communication that I really struggle with. Maybe (probably) it’s just me but a little more humility would be attractive. Being a good winner is important.”

With the subtext of Maureen’s primary interest being her attractiveness as opposed to demonstrating her expertise.

Another being the comment on male wine experts being criticized. A common subversion tactic when using sexist or otherwise discriminatory language in that the defender of such language says that they are just as harsh on people of their own sex (while conveniently ignoring the micro-aggression that was not bestowed upon the male critic in this case).

Why am I not surprised about this post in 2017… It was only a matter of time rolleyes people have this need to manufacture outrage everywhere. I think we should blame Trump.

…and this relates to Berserker Day how???

Mooch was describing that self-performed procedure.

That’s a lot of cut-n-paste for trying to make a simple statement.

Regarding that comment re: Maureen - a few years ago the Economist did an article about some of the candidates running for president. They pointed out that senior Bush was the last candidate who had a sense of humility and who had been taught by his mother the “horror of boasting—talking up “the Great I Am”.” When men do it they’re called loudmouths and braggarts. It has always been considered just a little declassé to talk yourself up, although today that’s pretty much expected. The writer was more than likely taught as a child that one doesn’t gloat or brag. Those are nice traits although there are worse sins than breaking those rules. Muhammad Ali was severely criticized, even before his conversion, because he showed no humility and that just wasn’t the way people are supposed to be. In any case you really have to stretch to get the comment to Maureen as sexist just because he used the term “attractive” as if that’s only related to looks. The other day I was listening to a debate at work and one person said to the other, “your argument is attractive but . . .”.

Seems more like a difference of style than anything else. Her style is to be direct and to give herself credit if she thinks she deserves it, while the writer might give more credence to people more reluctant to promote themselves. Both seem OK.

I would add a different definition of “Winesplaining.”
Explaining purchases of wine to your significant other.
This happens in 2 different scenarios:

  1. when a large shipment of wine arrives in the fall or spring. This can be “winesplained” with “this is a whole years worth of wine being shipped when the weather got better. Besides all this wine didn’t cost that much!”

  2. when the credit card bill comes. This can be “winesplained” with “the order only comes around once a year, and this is a great vintage. Besides, you should see all the wine I got for that money!”

This made me chuckle. Like Ricky Ricardo says, you’ve got some 'splaining to do!

When I saw the subject line, I assumed it would be about the tendency of wine geeks to talk too much about wine to civilians who probably aren’t that interested and/or think it’s a bit weird and obsessive that you know and care so much about the beverage.

And yes, I’m very often guilty of that.

'You ask too many questions" ~ Ray Walker

Guilty as charged