Wines helped by climate change

[Howard_Cooper]

I wonder if Champagne, and the increasing ability to make good Champagne with little or no dosage, is another example.

Would not be surprising. My guess is changes in climate are a factor in allowing some German regions to make better dry wine than 40 years ago.

[Kelly_Walker]

Barbera d’Alba. Much of the barbera is planted at the top of vineyards not suitable for nebbiolo. The barbera tended to be difficult to ripen. Now these upper areas ripening on a more consistent basis. I always preferred Barbera d’Asti because the grapes were planted at better elevation. That is changing.

[Chris_Seiber]

I can’t say I’ve observed if there is a change or if it’s for the better, but I could imagine Alto Piemonte wines improving if the growers are able to get the grapes a bit riper.

[Howard_Cooper]

Loire reds. Not sure I want change to the Loire whites, generally speaking.

We definitely seem to be having greater consistency in Loire Cab Franc vintages, through other factors, such as farming and winemaking approach, surely play some role.

Does anyone else think that we also seem to be having more good to very good+ vintages from Bordeaux than in recent past? I bought Bordeaux already this decade in 2010, 12, 14, 15 and 16, plus some select Pomerol in 2011. And reputedly 2018 is very good.

When I was younger, the only places I knew of for Loire Cab Franc were Chinon and Bourgueil. Now, Saumur seems to be a really hot place for this. Has Saumur changed, is this the result of one or more superstar producers, has it always been really good but under the radar, has climate change made a difference here?

[Rory_K]

The frequency of excellent vintages in Barolo/Barbaresco seems to be increasing, but as mentioned, this is a short term benefit as the frequency of hot vintages is also on the up

[Eric_Lundblad]

I’m not sure that’s true wrt Barolo (and maybe Barbaresco, not sure there). The alc & ripeness is increasing to a level where the balance is changing. Maybe it’ll change to something else interesting, but maybe it won’t be the magical wines that live for 50+ years and still need to be decanted all day to unlock their secrets

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Loire reds. Not sure I want change to the Loire whites, generally speaking.

We definitely seem to be having greater consistency in Loire Cab Franc vintages, through other factors, such as farming and winemaking approach, surely play some role.

Does anyone else think that we also seem to be having more good to very good+ vintages from Bordeaux than in recent past? I bought Bordeaux already this decade in 2010, 12, 14, 15 and 16, plus some select Pomerol in 2011. And reputedly 2018 is very good.

When I was younger, the only places I knew of for Loire Cab Franc were Chinon and Bourgueil. Now, Saumur seems to be a really hot place for this. Has Saumur changed, is this the result of one or more superstar producers, has it always been really good but under the radar, has climate change made a difference here?

Back in 2001 I was pouring a Saumur Champigny red by the glass that was my favorite wine we had btg. I sold 1-2 bottles per week though, while the other glass pours were 2-3 cases per week. The wine was dynamite though even when open for 3-4 days.

[A_Songeur]

MMMMhhh… I understand… wines are getting better… not my fault… global warming…yep, let’s have a bit more… I’ll try this one on my best part “I drink more because it gets better…”… so transparent… she is going to love it

[Howard_Cooper]

MMMMhhh… I understand… wines are getting better… not my fault… global warming…yep, let’s have a bit more… I’ll try this one on my best part “I drink more because it gets better…”… so transparent… she is going to love it

Did you read the first sentence of my OP? I drive an EV and have solar panels on my house - how about you?

[CJ_Beazley]

German reds, especially pinot noir (Spätburgunder).

My first thought also.

[Howard_Cooper]

Loire reds. Not sure I want change to the Loire whites, generally speaking.

We definitely seem to be having greater consistency in Loire Cab Franc vintages, through other factors, such as farming and winemaking approach, surely play some role.

Does anyone else think that we also seem to be having more good to very good+ vintages from Bordeaux than in recent past? I bought Bordeaux already this decade in 2010, 12, 14, 15 and 16, plus some select Pomerol in 2011. And reputedly 2018 is very good.

When I was younger, the only places I knew of for Loire Cab Franc were Chinon and Bourgueil. Now, Saumur seems to be a really hot place for this. Has Saumur changed, is this the result of one or more superstar producers, has it always been really good but under the radar, has climate change made a difference here?

Back in 2001 I was pouring a Saumur Champigny red by the glass that was my favorite wine we had btg. I sold 1-2 bottles per week though, while the other glass pours were 2-3 cases per week. The wine was dynamite though even when open for 3-4 days.

Interesting. I was vaguely familiar with the fact that wines were made in Saumur but thought of it as an inferior site until several years ago when I began hearing about Clos Rougeard. I like wines from the Loire including reds but it is not one of my top areas of focus, so it is not surprising that I am not really up to date on all the top wines from the Loire but now it seems like Saumur is the hottest area there. https://punchdrink.com/articles/how-saumur-became-loire-valley-wine-powerhouse-clos-rougeard/

[John_Morris]

Howard, I know what you’re saying about some vintages lacking acidity along the Mosel itself, but I think this is more about personal preference than quality. Plenty of relatively low acid vintages are aging very well. The underripe vintages of the past were true disasters for a lot of producers. Even if there is an argument for lower quality because of too little acidity for sweet styles in some vintages (I think there is to an extent), those wines are still much better than the wines from really bad vintages in past generations. The wines are more consistently good than they ever were, in my opinion.

I completely agree that the wines are much better in lesser vintages today than they were in Germany when I first started drinking wine. No question. I still think the Saar has been a bigger beneficiary than the Mosel. When a vintage like 2018 comes along today, I first think of Saar wines.

I’m kind of with you on this, Howard.

Apart from acidity levels, the sweet wines have gotten sweeter as fruit has come in at higher Brix/Oechsle levels, leading to a lot of cascading/declassification. In too many vintages, Kabinetts taste like Spatleses of yore (and have their sugar levels), and Spateleses like old-fashioned Ausleses.

The good thing is that there are a lot of outstanding QbA bottlings!

[Nathan_V]

When I was younger, the only places I knew of for Loire Cab Franc were Chinon and Bourgueil. Now, Saumur seems to be a really hot place for this. Has Saumur changed, is this the result of one or more superstar producers, has it always been really good but under the radar, has climate change made a difference here?

Back in 2001 I was pouring a Saumur Champigny red by the glass that was my favorite wine we had btg. I sold 1-2 bottles per week though, while the other glass pours were 2-3 cases per week. The wine was dynamite though even when open for 3-4 days.

Interesting. I was vaguely familiar with the fact that wines were made in Saumur but thought of it as an inferior site until several years ago when I began hearing about Clos Rougeard. I like wines from the Loire including reds but it is not one of my top areas of focus, so it is not surprising that I am not really up to date on all the top wines from the Loire but now it seems like Saumur is the hottest area there. https://punchdrink.com/articles/how-saumur-became-loire-valley-wine-powerhouse-clos-rougeard/

Saumur and Saumur-Champigny have been important viticultural areas for centuries.

[John_Morris]

The frequency of excellent vintages in Barolo/Barbaresco seems to be increasing, but as mentioned, this is a short term benefit as the frequency of hot vintages is also on the up

I’m not sure that’s true wrt Barolo (and maybe Barbaresco, not sure there). The alc & ripeness is increasing to a level where the balance is changing. Maybe it’ll change to something else interesting, but maybe it won’t be the magical wines that live for 50+ years and still need to be decanted all day to unlock their secrets

Yes, there have been very few write-off vintages since 1994 (rain and hail in 2002, excessive heat in 2003, devastating hail in 2017). But the alcohol (sometimes up to 15%) shows on some young nebbiolos now, and it’s hard to think that’s a good thing.

[Howard_Cooper]

Howard, I know what you’re saying about some vintages lacking acidity along the Mosel itself, but I think this is more about personal preference than quality. Plenty of relatively low acid vintages are aging very well. The underripe vintages of the past were true disasters for a lot of producers. Even if there is an argument for lower quality because of too little acidity for sweet styles in some vintages (I think there is to an extent), those wines are still much better than the wines from really bad vintages in past generations. The wines are more consistently good than they ever were, in my opinion.

I completely agree that the wines are much better in lesser vintages today than they were in Germany when I first started drinking wine. No question. I still think the Saar has been a bigger beneficiary than the Mosel. When a vintage like 2018 comes along today, I first think of Saar wines.

I’m kind of with you on this, Howard.

Apart from acidity levels, the sweet wines have gotten sweeter as fruit has come in at higher Brix/Oechsle levels, leading to a lot of cascading/declassification. In too many vintages, Kabinetts taste like Spatleses of yore (and have their sugar levels), and Spateleses like old-fashioned Ausleses.

The good thing is that there are a lot of outstanding QbA bottlings!

Also, there still are vintages like 2008, 2010, 2013 and 2015 with good acidity, at least some places. It is strange to me that these types of vintages are now outliers and offputting to many younger drinkers of German wines.

[Howard_Cooper]

But the alcohol (sometimes up to 15%) shows on some young nebbiolos now, and it’s hard to think that’s a good thing.

That is certainly true in a lot of regions - most of the great Cabernet Sauvignon regions, for example.

[R_Roberts]

I thought Aldo Vacca mentioned in a podcast(?) its benefiting the wines of Produttori. For now.

[Julian_Marshall]

Hard to argue with the Loire, especially reds. I don’t know if the Loire has ever had such a run of very good to great vintages, from 2014 to 2018, with 2019 to be confirmed. The only problem has been the spring frosts, which are perhaps also down to the change.

[John_Morris]

But the alcohol (sometimes up to 15%) shows on some young nebbiolos now, and it’s hard to think that’s a good thing.

That is certainly true in a lot of regions - most of the great Cabernet Sauvignon regions, for example.

Unlike in Bordeaux and New World cab regions, I don’t think the Piemontese are particularly aiming for a bigger, riper style. Where that’s happened, it seemed to be mostly a function of the weather.

[Marcu_Stanley]

Burgundy?

It’s a razors edge type situation and it’s very hard to distinguish the effects of greater resources and winemaking skill from climate, but has Burgundy ever seen a run of good to great vintages like 2002 to the present? I guess a lot will depend on what you think about 2009/2015/2018.