What’s the basis of making/aging wine in concrete vs. SS or wood (ok, I get the wood I think). What does concrete add/do/change that is different than other materials? Does anything leech out of the concrete into the wine?
Background: I know next to nothing about the real technical details of winemaking - I just know how to enjoy the final product.
Chris
In the Southern Rhone, white porcelain is favored over other materials, to flush out the true terroir.
Thanks Victor for that…
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Calling Steve Edmunds. Come in, Steve. Got your ears on? ![[help.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/4/4030a9a60185376a7393a78002ce3ec0176e975e.gif "help"){kind=small}
Great topic…can’t wait to see some answers.
Unlined concrete is porous and allows oxygenation.
There is a pretty good story in Wine Business about concrete:
Fermenting Wine in Cement Tanks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gene, Thanks for posting this article.
Chris, my understanding is that wood and concrete will let the air in. The difference being that wood will interact more with the wine (tannins, flavors) than concrete. Steel is going to keep the air out.
I seem to remember being on a tour at Mayacamas back in the early 1990’s and they were using cement at that time. Last stop of the day, could be wrong!
I think Mayacamas has used concrete vats for fermentors for many yrs. But they’re not quite the same, I believe.
Back in the old days in Calif, they were simple concrete vats that were lined w/ epoxy or some impermeable material to avoid any
flavor pickup from the cement. So not a whole lot different than fermenting in plastic picking bins, 'cept they were larger.
The new concrete fermentors are a whole nuther breed, as I understand from PaxMahle & SteveEdmunds. They are much smaller vessels.
Concrete tanks, often ovalide in shape, w/ SS fittings, reinforced w/ SS rebar. After manufacture, they’re treated w/ a strong citric or
tartaric solution to render them inert to flavor pickup. But the still have the porosity/breathability that you’d get from a concrete vat,
with (presumably) no flavor pickup.
VinoVessel out of Paso is the company Steve uses and is repping. More info at: http://www.vinovessel.com/. The concrete
fermenters that Pax uses comes from the Rhone, I believe.
Tom
Another interesting thing about concrete, that I just learned recently, is that it sequesters CO2. Not sure if that’s material to wine-making, though, given that you can still punch-down in these things (at least some of them).
Chris
No real point of reference for this, but I thought it was the first material that you could make large vats with. I don’t think the Romans were going to be working with stainless steel or glass-lined tanks.
Gosh, I missed this thread. Been a bit busy.
Anyway, we now he three concrete tanks made by VinoVessel, one being their prototype. Last year with the first two, we kept a Grenache Blanc in one for the entire life of the wine, and in the other we fermented Zin. The Zin was from the same vineyard/block and same pick as a portion that we fermented in bins, and the lot in concrete was definitely fruitier than the one in bins. If they do indeed sequester CO2, it would make sense because small amounts of CO2 can give fruity lift to a wine. The Grenache Blanc turned out nicely, but I can’t compare it to anything as we had the entire lot in it. Thy ork well because not onl do they breathe, but they also maintain a constant temp for very long periods of time. The two reds we fermented in concrete this year never got above the upper 70’s, and the white stayed in the mid to upper 60’s.