A recent lengthy posting about Italian led to a lot of comments about how Italian wines really need to drunk with food to shine.
Well today as one of our Xmas wines we had a Rivers Marie 2009 ( I think it was called Silver Eagle ) Pinot, well this had a very similar character to Italian wine, it had that thinner acidic European style that is the opposite of say a Kosta Browne. The wine was OK but I did not enjoy it that much, it was followed up by a 2009 Saxum Broken Stones which of course is the exact opposite, a big powerful Paso that you would never confuse with a European wine, this I enjoyed immensely.
So I am coming to a conclusion that wines that are made to be drunk with food are not my thing, I prefer wines that are just made to be drunk. Now a lot of people in that Italian thread stated that the only time they drink wine is with food, this to me is cobblers you should drink wine at any time your in the mood either with or without food. Now does a big juicy ribeye add something to the aforementioned Saxum absolutely they enhance each other but for my taste either one of them is still outstanding on their own as well and they don’t need each other.
As usual im guessing that im an island in my ideas, wont be the first time !!!
You will miss out on one of the greatest pleasures in life if you don’t learn to properly match food and wine. I would have been happy to drink the Mount Eden Vineyard Pinot we had tonight without food. But I was very happy to have it with food.
Not saying I wont pair them or enjoy them together, what I am saying is that I don’t think ill ever get into wines that have to be drunk with food to shine
I think you should just find WBers who are aligned with your taste on the wines you know, and look to their recommendations. Joe B made some in the Italian thread. Jay Hack is another good bet. There are so many high quality wines out there, you can’t hope to try everything anyway. Might as well branch out in a way that gives you a good chance of liking things.
I wouldn’t worry about what wines are “made” to go with food. Start by drinking what you like with what you want to eat, and work from there.
Alan, I agree that you should not need food to enjoy a wine. Wine is a beverage, not a food group. I understand the whole food/wine matching angle but food should not need to cover for an acidic fruitless wine.
Seriously: I like to enjoy wine solo AND with food - but usually I don´t like wines that are ONLY good with food … too restrictive, and if I wanna take a sip without a bite in the mouth … what´s then ?
So I´m also no fan of Italian wines in general - sold almost all my Italian stock 15 years ago … for all purposes I had and have something in the cellar from France or Austria that I like better …
Sure a perfect match between wine and food is a really good thing, but on the other hand my experience is that if a wine isn´t good alone I would also not enjoy it with food, but the combination can be better still than each part alone.
So wines I don´t like I will also not really enjoy with food (a strictly personal thing).
On the other hand I´d rather prefer a favorite wine - even if it is not a perfect match with the food - to a wine that theoretically matches perfectly but which I don´t really like …
I can always take a sip of water in between … and enjoy both wine and food …
I guess I am in the camp that prefers to drink wine with food. I can only sip some of the “cocktail” style wines for a bit before I get bored with them for lack of a better word. But I can see how it is a matter of taste really. Outside of wine I also like less sugary, tart flavors. I also prefer the savory over the sweet in both food and drinks.
It puzzles though, how some people can pair certain foods with those big fruity oaky wines. But I also understand that I am analyzing things through my own taste buds.
Wine can be enjoyed by itself for sure. But food just adds one more dimension to it. The fat, salt, sweetness, acidity and texture will alter the taste of the wine. A wine unbalanced by itself can be very enjoyable when correctly paired with food. On the other hand a bad pair can really ruin the experience of a nice bottle.
I read a lot about how the RM’s are more burgundian in style. My pinot preference is Kosta and Pisoni so im not sure if it will work
Had both the Broken Stones and loved them both, i know that not everyone is as keen on Saxum but i love it, food, no food, cigars or whatever they are just great.
They are brighter and redder but I. would never call them burgundian. Youve seen what I own. Give them another chance.
As for.the bourbons, I already had both of those open Also try donum if u Get a chance. Very KB
There are certain wines that pair beautifully with certain foods, and there are other wines that are just meant to be appreciated on their own. All have place. A few nights ago I had a 2013 Donnhoff trocken that was lights out ridiculous with cold Connecticut blue point oysters. Heaven was right there.
By and large, though, I am more of a wino than a foodie. I generally tend to value my wine experience over my food experience, and many of the wines I swoon over, at least to me, are more contemplative such as to be better appreciated on their own. Allemand. Clape. Raffault. Any Franc de Pied. And so on.
I know they are not big names but give the old bardstown straight bourbon and wild turkey rare breed a try, for around $35 they are both fantastic drinkers
At dinner with non-wine- people in Florida and I ordered a bottle of Au Bon Climat basic Santa Barbera PN. The very nice waiter, thinking that when I’d said “ABC” pointing to the Au Bon Climat, I’d actually said “A to Z” and he tried to dissuade me and offered me a taste of the Meiomi PN, and I indulged him. It was dark ruby and overripe, with little acidity, a hotness to it, and a nose of pomegranate and cola, candy like. Not a terrible cocktail wine, but undrinkable with our meals. The Au Bon Climat, by comparison, had somewhat more restrained flavors but was noticeably more acidic and balanced. It wasn’t tannic nor lean, but wasn’t like candy either…
A recent lengthy posting about Italian led to a lot of comments about how Italian wines really need to drunk with food to shine.
Alan - that’s nonsense. And so is the that there are “food wines” and sipping wines.
That crap came up sometime in the 1990s or later when some writers decided that they didn’t like the direction some winemakers were heading so they came up with the idea of “food wines”. It’s bullshit. Italy is a huge country wine-wise and it’s just not possible to generalize about Italian wines - what does Lagrein have to do with Primitivo or Nero d’Avola?
There’s no reason you can’t drink your Kosta Browne with food - it’s pretty ridiculous to suggest that you can’t. I don’t like Kosta Browne as a general rule, but that’s got nothing to do with its ability to be enjoyed with food if that’s what you like.
If people like wines that aren’t as big as Kosta Browne - that’s cool too. But to suggest that there’s some bright line and on one side are food wines and on the other are non-food wines is just silly. And pointless - it’s not going to change anyone’s mind if you tell them that what they’re drinking with their dinner isn’t really really really something that they should be enjoying.
And you’re right - you should drink wine any time you’re in the mood.
“Food wines” and “cocktail wines” are shorthand code words based on generalizations, and are often used in a pejorative manner. But they shouldn’t be.
It all comes down to personal preference. While there are some valid generalities about more acidic and less ripe, less alcoholic wines working as better food matches for many people, they are just generalities.
For example, Robert Alfert’s statement above that he tends to value his wine experience over his food experience resonates with me. Based on your posts Alan, I suspect you feel similarly. I would guess that while all three of us love a great wine/food match, we can be just as happy, maybe happier, enjoying a wine that shows great on its own. Yet we each have different preferences for the types of wines we like best in those situations. Clape Cornas is a cocktail wine (in a good way) for Robert Alfert. It’s a food wine (also in a good way) for me.
Also try donum if u Get a chance. Very KB