Wine tasting descriptors that make you RUN

WINE TALK
41

No, but I can tell you how to pronounce it if you’d like.

42

jammy, also kirsch and, finally (I suppose not actually descriptive) super Tuscan

43

Well, no.

noun
1.
a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification.

adjective
2.
Also, hedonistic. of, relating to, or characteristic of a hedonist or hedonism.

It is derived from “hedonic”:

adjective
1.
of, characterizing, or pertaining to pleasure:
a hedonic thrill.

pertaining to hedonism or hedonics.

No mindlessness. No necessary tie to a philosophical system. And I would hope that any wine, no matter how one might characterize it otherwise, would be consumed in the pursuit of pleasure.

It does seem as though the word is usually affixed to big, alcoholic, dense wines, which explains why some people “run” the other way when it is deployed as a compliment

44

Bordeaux.


Admittedly I like Bordeaux but it was the best counterattack I could come up with.

45

Not crazy about ‘insipid’ either.

46

I don’t know what dictionary you are using. The OED defines hedonistic as “of or pertaining to hedonism” and defines “hedonism” as “the doctrine or theory of ethics in which pleasure is regarded as the chief good or proper end of action.”

47

“What we have here is, failure, to communicate.”

48

Any American dictionary should do. For example, Merriam Webster has:

Definition of hedonist

plural hedonists

: a person who is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure : someone who practices hedonism
The most recent vintage to hit U.S. retail shelves is 2007, which produced rich wines with flattering fruit and voluptuous texture—a hedonist’s dream. —James Molesworth

Though we think of him as a hedonist, Whitman was something of a prude himself, by the standards of his time. —David S. Reynolds

Oh look; a wine reference too!

Dictionary.com has

[heed-n-ist]

noun
1.
a person whose life is devoted to the pursuit of pleasure and self-gratification.

And the Oxford dictionary online ( Oxford Languages | The Home of Language Data ) has:

hedonistic
ADJECTIVE
Engaged in the pursuit of pleasure; sensually self-indulgent.

‘a hedonistic existence of booze, drugs, and parties’



hedonist
NOUN
A person who believes that the pursuit of pleasure is the most important thing in life; a pleasure-seeker.

‘she was living the life of a committed hedonist’

and

hedonic
ADJECTIVE
technical
Relating to, characterized by, or considered in terms of pleasant (or unpleasant) sensations.

Example sentences

What dictionary are you using?

49

As I said, the OED, both the last print edition of 1989 and the online edition. I’m a little shocked at this interchange. If your point is that the word has been extended to mean anyone who pursues pleasure, you are, of course, right. That still makes its use to describe wine as absurd. But you surely do know that the words first meaning has been to refer to an ethical belief about pleasure being the only true good.

50

Whew…another hurdle I think I crossed. My descriptors tend to not be in those classes.

I did, recently, advise here that people who like big bold Napa Cabernets should RUN not walk away from my 2011. Such a joy this all is. [cheers.gif]

51

This didactic sub-thread reminds me of comic Steve Wright’s take:

I was reading the dictionary. I thought it was a poem about everything.

52

Thank you.

My point was, of course, that virtually NO ONE associates the word with an ethical system or philosophical belief system and hasn’t for hundreds or maybe a thousand years (perhaps outside the confines of Oxford), and that saying people who use the term are ludicrous for doing so because of this association is itself ludicrous.

53

The Leve is pretty good for a porn note however [thumbs-up.gif]

54

A guy I dated a couple of years ago insisted he was getting a copyright on “hedonistic.” I asked about Robert Parker’s use of the word. 2 years ago he felt confident he had a lock on that. His resort is in Jamaica, and aptly named Hedonisn. A wild, bright man…an ex-Magaellan portfolio guy. Enter at your own risk.

55

Turgid. Great word. Don’t know if I’d want a turgid wine though.

56

If we stick to why hedonistic as currently used widely by wine writers is objectionable, i find the term pretty silly as applied to wine for 2 basic reasons: (1) all good wine has aspects that impart pleasure to different groups of tasters; and (2) a false and baseless dichotomy has been pushed on us between a hedonistic wine and an intellectual wine. That said, since we have all lived with that term for decades now, it’s not meaningless at all to stay away from or be wary of a wine identified as hedonistic as an indication it ain’t for you.

57

Jammy
Fat
Built like a skyscraper
Raisin
Port-like

58

The claim that no one has used the term to refer to an ethical belief for hundreds or thousands of years, even when I give allowance for hyperbole, is simply breathtaking. The fact that that is the only definition the OED offers is enough to falsify it. But a google search landing you on Wikipedia will do as well.

As I said, even if I take your definition of hedonism as pleasure seeking, the word refers to the practice of a person seeking pleasure, not to the pleasure sought. It’s extension to wine is, as I now say for the third time, absurd.

I have no doubt that usage will enter a dictionary if it hasn’t already, just as the constant use of varietal to refer to grape variety probably will. Maybe we will start to call toast pain grillé too. We also no longer have a second person singular and the language is not the better for it.

59

And I thought I was pedantic.

It isn’t that the meaning I quoted above may at some point enter the dictionary; it is, in fact RIGHT NOW the first and often the ONLY meaning you will find in most dictionaries not named OED, as I showed. You and the Oxford Dons can tut tut over the demolition of the English language all you want but the fact is that almost no one alive today makes the association on which you insist.

This “discussion” has nothing to do with wine and I am done with it.

60

Re: creamy I find it to be used in two different ways, one attactive and one that makes me run. I find there is a creaminess in the texture of a wine, especially with age, of wines made with old vines. (Wine writers and reviewers talk about it. John Morris, do you have a relevant WB link? :slight_smile: ) I am not sure if it is linked to glycerin as suggested above, or maybe that’s different. It might be the interplay between tannin, extract, and acid. So if a note says “creamy mouthfeel”, hopefully in context i can figure out if it’s this textural sense instead of…

The bad creamy for me is milkshake-like, thick, heavy, potentially low in acid and extract.