Wine retailers are the weakest link

Wine Pimps
21

I always thought retailers should have their own ratings and make their own shelf talkers. I am not saying to be dishonnest, but why not a Roberto 93 for those wines he thinks deserve it. After all, what’s the difference between that and talking to the customer and saying the same thing. If a customer wants points, give them points. If your right, they will be back, if not, then …

As for Chad’s initial post, I am not a retailer, but if I were, I would expect my supplier to help sell their wines. If they won’t, I would find someone who would. If the answer to their questions is that there are no reviews, then create some (see above).

Heck, I am sure many consumers have no clue who gave the wine 90+ points, only that it got the score (and probably had a nice label).

22

I’ve never had a sales rep worth their salt who didn’t supply ratings where applicable. So, I’m not really sure about the rant. If the wine gets a good score from whomever then reps, like retailers, use that to their advantage…So, I really don’t know what to think…

JD

23

Exhibit A: See WTSO.com and Jonathan Newman.

24

That’s exactly what I think most serious retailers intend as their business model. I believe, though, that making that happen is more difficult in tough economic times. For some (maybe most these days), it’s necessary to convert a very high percentage of walk-ins to sales, and scores and shelf-talkers help… especially with new or transient customers, so you tend to use anything that can help. I used them mostly on wines with high scores, on new arrivals, on special finds, and on lesser-known varietals. The big retailers in our area use them on everything… and I mean EVERYTHING. The people who bought my shop don’t use them at all. [scratch.gif]

25

We do all of our own POS and make it creative enough that we get PRESS for it:

http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/wine/wine-expo-best-of-la-tequila/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

26

I got the impression from the initial post that Chaad received calls from retailers asking if wines he had sold them had any press (and judging from the list of producers on the website, they do not).

27

Chaad’s book is full of wines with solid press IN EUROPE. The fact that he is ahead of the score / price escalation curve is a GOOD thing.

28

I think that too often we forget here how most people buy wine. Just like anything else, branding, marketing, advertising, etc. can drive sales for certain wines. This leads to the hype, therefore, over highly rated wines, and some people seek those things out.

Additionally, in a store with lots of choices, a shelf talker stands out. If you’re in a store that has only a few employees, and you have customers who at peak rush times may not be able to get the proper time from a salesperson on the floor, those shelf talkers are another way to sell the wines. They don’t call it ‘Point of Sale’ for nuthin’.

As Loren pointed out, points sell these days, regardless of origin. If the customers want 90+ wines, give them shelf talkers with a review and 92pts CT. Who cares? You won’t be upset if you’re selling wine.

For the record, about 20% of the wines in my store have shelf talkers. Most are written by me, a few by my coworkers. Maybe 5 or 6 are cut-and-paste Parker/WA scores. They are focused on our year-round featured selections (Staff Picks) our Organic selections, and current features (lots of Rose shelf talkers right now). I don’t like to use POS offered by salespeople.

29

Daniel, I wasn’t clear in my OP…I guess I was ranting! No, they weren’t calls for wines they’d purchased from me, they were calls for wines with “90pts or more” and “highly rated wines” in general that they would purchase if I had them. The exact wine didn’t matter.

What pisses me off is precisely that: THAT THE WINE DOESN’T MATTER. As long as it’s 90pts and fairly inexpensive, and not something wacky like Edelzwicker or Pignolo, they’ll buy it. I think it’s incredibly lazy and stupid to use ratings as a crutch by buying on selling on points only.

I understand they’re desperate because our market is in the shitter and they’ve (indie retailers) have had they’re hides peeled by the grocery chains and box/discount outlets, but they need to stop trying to play the “chain game” of “more points for less money = value” and deliver some real service, real specialization, and real value to their clientele.

It kills me that these guys are working the floor in their shop, and think they don’t have anything over a shelftalker at Costco. [scratch.gif] If they’re in their store in the first place, haven’t they already overcome the greatest hurdle?

Points should not be the selling point but a selling aid, period.

30

Roberto: Thanks for getting it. Thanks for doing some work to sell wine. You know you’re exceptional though, and I hope you know I hold your work in the highest regard. Really. Not everyone has the ability to do it like you do, but even if there were just a few more who cared even just a fraction of what you do about wine, it would change the wine world!

We’ve got one guy around here who has, to use some pseudo-marketing terminology, built so much value into his store as brand, that he doesn’t even need to price the wines on the floor! No shelftalkers, an occasional producer bio, but that’s it. He and his team put their hands on every single customer who walks in, finds out what they’re shopping for, and sells them wine. He sells TONS of wine, too. All kinds of wine. Any wine he wants. Someone can walk in looking for “cab” and walk out with refosco vigne vecchie, usually both! He rarely mentions ratings, and only in passing. Totally awesome (even though I think unpriced wine is a violation of state law)!

And you know it’s not some “sales magic,” right? He simply puts his personal credibility as a guarantee on each bottle. He has expertise, provides real service, and has earned the respect of his customers.

31

This sounds like a great idea, except that in my experience, it has been corrupted almost immediately. It’s just too easy to cheat. For example: Manager buys a couple pallets of Argentine syrah at 50 cents a bottle, puts it on the floor at $6.99, nothing happens. So he makes a big sign: “Consensus Score 94 points!” and puts the price up to $14.99. It starts to move. Nobody buys it twice, because it’s terrible, but enough suckers look at the number and buy a case. I worked at the store where this happened, and I was sorely tempted to report the guy to the Better Business Bureau, except at the time I couldn’t afford to lose my job. But I got out of there as fast as I could. I kept waiting for a customer to ask who made up the “consensus,” but nobody ever did.

32

You guys get it! [dance-clap.gif]

There’s more than one way to skin a pig, and I’m not saying to throw ratings out the window. Some will use use none, some will use some…but the point is that a vendor cannot build their “brand value” around pushing points and ratings. It’s practically like trying to sell cars saying, “Look, it has wheels,” when they’ve all got wheels. With the way some shops are pushing points, it does seem like they’re as common as wheels, too. I’ve recently seen points listed from http://www.justwinepoints.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, for example.

This kind of over-reliance and overuse is leading quickly to consumer burnout, and once points stop become the deal-maker, what are those shops who’ve propped who’ve propped up their sales model on them going to do? Why would consumers choose that shop over any other?

And the kicker, of course, is that most of the shops in that model are all selling the same stuff… [shock.gif]

33

Randy,

I’m glad you made the effort to go to my site, but you got the read wrong all 'round.

I do zero business in grocery stores, chain discounters, corporate restaurants; most all of it is in indie wine shops and upscale specialty, and indie restaurants.

I sell in five other states in addition to Michigan, and still growing.

Others have already addressed the fallacy of comparing Whole Foods to Costco/TJs, so I won’t reiterate that, but I will slam you for thinking that one retailer in CA is gonna make my business. That’s stupid.

Finally, you can get the finger for presuming I support HR 5034. I don’t know exactly what that is, but I assume it’s anti-shipping legislation, which I have no part in supporting.

In sum, you’re take on my business, and the market is general, is founded on lack of understanding.

34

And I’d be careful of slamming Costco - my local warehouse has carried Chateau Petrus on more than one occasion. (as well as Margaux, and enough Joseph Phelps Insignia to fill a swimming pool).

35

[/quote]

And I’d be careful of slamming Costco - my local warehouse has carried Chateau Petrus on more than one occasion. (as well as Margaux, and enough Joseph Phelps Insignia to fill a swimming pool).[/quote]

But Costco pricing undercuts regular retail pricing by a long shot because they’re offered better pricing on pallet buys, then mark up 8%. Very hard to compete with Costco if you are a small, upscale retail shop.

It’s the reason Costco is the #1 wine retailer in the US (with TJ’s second).

36

Well that’s why you have Carrie. Duh. flirtysmile

I understand Chaad’s initial rant…and I agree to some of it. But a vast majority of consumers are essentially wine ignorant (and I mean that in a nice way [whistle.gif] ), thus they need crutches like points. Buying points and not wine? Let them have it!

37

Randy Bowman gave me this great advice one day:

  1. Find a $4.00, crappy bottle of red wine that just sits and won’t sell.
  2. Remove the price tag and replace it with one marked $49.99.
  3. Draw a line through the $49.99 with a red pen and hand write $29.99.
  4. Tell the first customer that asks about it, that it is one of those unknown, underrated wines that just don’t move, so you’re selling it for $1.00 over cost.

If the customer buys it, five minutes after he leaves the store, dreidel, schmuck, schlemiel, bagels and lox will all make sense to you. Carrie showed me so I would understand why she does things the way she does.

38

I sell wine every day. I don’t sell a “point.” It cracks me up when I see a rep with a large distributor presenting in front of me, and the first words out of his/her mouth is “This is a 92 pointer from WS…”

But I understand the game. It is what it is. Frustrating? Yes. Manageable? Absolutely.

39

Very Good Chaad,

The reaction I expected and was looking for. You stereotype retailers as lazy bumpkins and get very defensive when you are called out as a stereotypical distributor. I took on YOUR business because I DO understand the ethics, dynamics and pitfalls of distribution and the market that I’ve been a part of for ten years and my wife for 32 years.

Now lets start over.

You have encountered three retailers that want some background to promote YOUR wines. You are taking it on face value that they are lazy. I don’t think so. In these times, many can’t afford to pay you for wine they can’t sell or have to hand sell without any background, when there are so many other wines that sell themselves.

If you work in partnership with these retailers, everybody benefits. You and the retailers are in the same business of selling YOUR wine. I doubt you import the wines you have just to have them. You must believe you have a good product to sell. You and your sales staff should be prepared to promote and supply information on your wines at all times. As a smaller distributor, I would expect your sales staff to be knowledgeable about every wine in your book, able to promote the wines on their own and points be damned. With that information, any retailer can move value and quality wine. If you and your sales staff are not, then its time to get knowledgeable.

No finger to you Chaad. I take your initial post as a frustrated rant, (probably alcohol fueled like many of mine) and your response was expected. My point is made in bold. We are partners on this board to share knowledge, ideas and support. Occasionally, one feels it is necessary to shake the tree to bring things into focus.

Randy

40

Randy! Say it isn’t so! Oh my…how can I ever look at WB as a serious board ever again. I am so deflated.

hey, what’s your phone number over there?