Wine Recommendation for Pseudo-Judgement of Paris

WINE TALK
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Hi you beautiful people, [SUMMARY: NEED WINE RECS, PLEASE HELP]

This is my first post so I am shaking in my boots as I am writing this, but figured it’s worth the anxiety to consult the most premier group of vino-guru/maestro/phile/etc.

As the title suggests, I am planning a fun little blind tasting event for my not-so-wine-crazy friends. The genesis of this event was a heated (while inebriated) argument with my friend who has a place in Napa (and naturally a Napa lover) about old world vs new world. Long story short, I figured I’d prove a point to her by throwing a blind tasting modeled (very, very loosely - sorry folks) after the '76 judgement of Paris where my friends try a red and a white from each of France and USA, and vote on which red and white is better than their counterpart.

This is where I implore you to help your fellow grasshopper member (but not lacking in enthusiasm!!) out. After attending the recent UGCB, I have already picked either of Brane-Cantenac '22 or Lagrange '22 (likely the Lagrange) for French red. But I have no idea which Napa Cab (fake claret) would be considered the “one of the best” to go up against the Bordeaux counterpart. Since I am an old-world guy through-and-through, I could pick some crappy Nap Cab, I do want it to be fair.

SO, if you have any 2022 Napa Cab recommendation in the $55-$60 range (Lagrange price) or $85-$90 range (Brane-Cantenac), that would be so great.

ALSO, for whites, I am so lost. I initially wanted to bring Chateau Pape-Clement blanc, but I think it makes more sense to bring as White Burg and a Napa Chardonnay, also '22 vintage in the $50-70 range. I know this is a tough ask for White Burg, and I thought about Chablis (or maybe Fuisse) but ideally if I could put up a Mersault (since the most “California” of the White Burgs) with a Napa Chardonnay, that would be great. But could be any region! I’m easy to please

Any recommendation would be greeted with the upmost servility (like that inn keeper in Brother Karamazov - forgot his name).

Thank you all in advnace and have an amazing weekend!!!

Your truly,
Jack Kim

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First, welcome!

For Cali chard in that price range, perhaps look at the Ramey Chardonnay line. You are going to likely see most replies above your budget, but it can be done. (Even I went out of budget for one of the wines.)

If you look for merchants with good pricing, the Hyde Chardonnays can be had in your range.

I saw Far Niente Chard under 60 bucks.

Forman is great, and Grgich might work as well, you have some fun options!

And, of course, the OG…Chateau Montelena is in your budget!!!

For cabs, it gets harder to price aim.

Maybe Mondavi Napa Cab at about 50 bucks?

Amazingly (!) I saw a 2021 Alpha Omega Drew Vineyard can for 56 bucks on Wine Searcher, this seems like a great option.

2019 Markham cab for 59 bucks, as well.

2022 Caterwaul at 60 dollars is also very representative.

2021 Mount Veeder at 60.

2022 Pine Ridge also at 60…I haven’t had that vintage from them yet, but good past recor.

Ramey also makes a cab at that price point, it might be cool to have one winery with a representative in each category!

And, again, the OG Mayacamus can can be had only 5 dollars about your price range, but…it’s historical.

PLease let us know what you pick and how it goes.

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Welcome!

I believe it’s hard to replicate the wines of that exact time as so much has happened in terms of climate and more.

To add confusion or to improve your odds of winning the argument, perhaps, why not do an extra round before the heavier wines with Pinot Noir from three parts of the world, and hell, you could throw in a fourth as well. France, US, NZ and Japan.

Same could be done with Chardo.

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Hi Anton,

Thank you so very much for your amazing recs! Going proper throwback with Montelena and Stag’s Leap (I know, I know - it won’t be the SLV, but will my friends notice???) could also be fun here. I’ve actually really enjoyed the '19, '20 and '21 Montelena, but know nothing about Stag’s Leap’s entry Cab.

I think the biggest challenge for me would be find a White Burg from Mersault or St. Aubin at that price range. I’m sure great options exist out there…

Will keep you posted :slight_smile:

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Hi Mads - you’re totally right. I think a bonus round (but in the beginning) with a Santa Barbara Pinot VS Burgundy could be a fun addition!!!

Thanks for the idea <3

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For white burgundy, Olivier Leflaive Bourgogne Blanc Oncle Vincent is usually in the $50-$60 range these days, as are several of the Les Héritiers du Comte Lafon bottlings. Depending on what wines you have access to (either online or at your local shop), you should be able to find several good Bourgogne Blancs in that price range.

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Bordeaux fan here. Don’t buy many Napa Cabs, but a personal fave is the Frog’s Leap Rutherford. I have not had the 2022, but worth checking out. A fairly classic, well-balanced Cab. I think it could give the Bordeaux a fair fight here.

Nice choices on those Bordeaux, by the way. The 2016 and 2019 of each are excellent.

PS. For the 2022 Burgs or Chablis, grab Louis Michel or Trebut. My go-to whites these days. And for a ringer, Donnhoff Chardonnay.

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Frog’s Leap Cabernet is the rare OG Napa flagship wine that can still be had at around $75.
Ramey Claret is a decently reliable and affordable Cali BDX blend.

It’s getting increasingly difficult to find well-made white burgs in this price range. As you said, Chablis is one appellation where this is still possible but stylistically it’s just such a different animal from CA chardonnays that I’m not sure if it’s the right comparison. My suggestion is to look in Maconnais or Cote Chalonnaise. Perhaps one of from among the several exulted producers who produce whites in these “lesser” districts, such as Lafon or de Villaine.

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For white Burgundy, you should be able to find a wine from Marc Colin for around your price range. Also, look for wines from Bouchard Pere, Jadot and Drouhin.

But, as others have said, the best values in white Burgundy are from Chablis. I love the wines of Christian Moreau and Moreau-Naudet. The wines of Samuel Billaud have been recommended to me recently (I bought a couple of bottles this week) but I have not tasted them yet.

For California Chardonnay, try Mount Eden. Mount Eden Chardonnay - Five Decades - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

For reds, I HIGHLY recommend trying wines older than 2022. 2022 wines are certainly the easiest wines to buy, but if you don’t try wines with some age, what is the point of the tasting? Brane Cantenac is an excellent choice, but I might try something other than Lagrange for a less expensive wine. The 2016 Lafon Rochet is excellent at around that price range.

For California reds, how about Domaine Eden Cabernet at your lower level. If you really want a treat to open yourself up to what California Cabernet can taste like for someone with an old-world palate, try Mount Eden Cabernet. Mount Eden Vineyards

2012 Mount Eden Cabernet Sauvignon, Santa Cruz Mountains - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

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Corison Napa Valley for the Cabernet

Ramey Chard from either Hyde or Rochioli Vineyard for the Chardonnay

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The white burg is pretty easy, dureuil janthial rully or rully mazieres, ideally 2020 if you can find it.

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Flattery will get you everywhere here.

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I’m not being obsequious, I’m just paying respect!!! :wink:

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Thank you, going to see if I’m find em in the NYC area.

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Going outside Napa to Chalk Hill the Calluna Estate Cab Sauv would be a worthy contender at $75.

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Calluna Estate Cab and Frogs Leap would be my choices. The Calluna can be found in the $60-65 dollar range.

Tom

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Thank you so much for these recs!!!

I had the Lagrange ‘22 at the UGCB and it was an absolute smoke-show – Margot Robbie in Wolf of Wall Street, Henry Goulding in Crazy Rich Asians-type show-stopper out of the whole Bordeaux bunch (and that’s saying something). One idea (not a very good one) was putting it up against ‘18 Heitz Cellar (wine shop I work with offering me deal at ~65/btl, because that’s how much I believe their '22.

Maybe then I’m defeating the whole purpose of this blind tasting by having too much difference in age and price? (4-yrs is a considerable difference). I would really be pushing the limits of the term “Pseudo”-- bordering sacrilege. But I can always chalk this up as “Oops this is my first time hosting 40 people”?

Still brainstorming, but thank you again so, so much for your thoughtful response and looking into your recs now.

EDIT: Domaine Eden '19 could be a decent apples-to-apples comparison with respect to vintage & price range

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Welcome to the forum!

I don’t have specific wine recommendations, but I do have a recommendation on how you organize your tasting. For a true apples-to-apples comparison, pick a vintage where both California and France had the same quality of vintage. IIRC, that was one of the fallacies of the “Judgement of Paris” because the vintages compared were not of the same quality. Just my $0.02.

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Great idea, thank you!!!

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There’s always a risk in New vs Old World tastings that the fruit of the New World wines will make the French wines seem austere and tart. I think Ramey’s wines, both red and white, would be less likely to cause that problem.

In your price range, the Ramey Napa cabernet (~$50) is very structured – absolutely not a fruit bomb. If your tastes run to old school, I think you’d like that. (The Ramey claret is less impressive, in my view.) Dave Ramey says he makes this in a traditional Bordeaux style, and it reminds me of Bordeaux and Napa cab in the pre-Parkerized days. The '16 is still fairly backward, but has great concentration and a lot of tannin.

Ramey’s Fort Ross-Seaview chardonnay is a great bargain ($40 heavily discounted), with modest oak levels and good acidity. The Hyde chardonnay, which is considerably more expensive and hard to find at retail these days, is fabulous.

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