Will There Be A 2011 Dom Perignon?

Michael_S_Monie · October 22, 2021, 10:13pm

First 2009 followed by 2008 and then 2010. From what I understand 2012 is next up. I’m under the assumption that 2011 was a stronger vintage than 2010. So will there be a 2011 and if not why not?

Andrew_K · October 22, 2021, 11:08pm

2012 has already been released FYI

Otto_Forsberg · October 23, 2021, 11:14am

2011 stronger? At DP or in Champagne? Because AFAIK 2011 is probably the lousiest vintage post-millennium (along with 2003).

2010 was a poor vintage but not nearly as lousy as 2011.

Michael_S_Monie · October 23, 2021, 4:52pm

So you think 2003 (DP declared) is a worse vintage than 2001 (DP didn’t declare) post-millennium? Both 2010 and 2011 left a lot to be desired. So I guess the relevant question is why would DP declare one and not the other.

Andrew_K · October 23, 2021, 5:53pm

Lots of factors to why a large house does or doesn’t declare a vintage and I would say quality is not near the top.

B_Davies · October 23, 2021, 6:00pm

Any thoughts if it becomes a Dom Perignon P2?

Michael_S_Monie · October 23, 2021, 6:06pm

What stands out with DP is how few vintages that they don’t declare.

B_Davies · October 23, 2021, 6:16pm

I mean I just ordered 4 bottles of J.M. Labruyere Prologue Grand Cru Brut to see if it’s any good. Their grapes used to get purchased by Dom so maybe that’s where 2011 went.

Greg_K · October 23, 2021, 6:52pm

It’s the largest tete de cuvee by some margin, as I recall, with no pretense to being a “grower” champagne in big house clothing, so there will always be grapes to make vintage Dom. The question is whether it’s worth buying.

Brad_Baker · October 24, 2021, 1:24am

There is no DP in 2011. Some always gets made for internal use/research, but not for public release.

The best of 2011 is better than the best of 2010; the issue is that there was a lot of under-ripe grapes picked in 2011 and that drags the vintage down. It was hard in 2011 for any large producer to make a wine in volume due to a lot of mis-timed picking. Some actually did consider making vintage wine in 2011, but waited on 2012 to make a final call. When 2012 came in as outstanding, the 2011s were moved to reserve wines.

As for poor vintages this century, 2001 is by far the worst. 2010, 2011, and 2017 are the next worst, but no where near as bad as 2001. 2003 handled correctly can be quite nice.

Otto_Forsberg · October 24, 2021, 7:45am

Sorry, forgot about 2001. Yes, 2001 definitely with 2011 and 2003.

And about why DP would release 2003? Hmm, I don’t know. Maybe money?

DP 2003 Rosé is probably the biggest, clumsiest and jammiest Champagne I’ve ever tasted. Some might like that kind of stuff, but I really don’t see why they released such a wine - well, apart from making money.

IlkkaL · October 24, 2021, 8:27am

Do you think 2017 was bad as uniformly as 2011? I have tried to avoid 2011 like the plague regardless of the producer - had no idea about the 2017 vintage generalizations so just bought Bereche’s Rive Gauche as the wines tend to sell out so quickly these days…

Brad_Baker · October 24, 2021, 2:39pm

Otto,

My take on the 2003s is that those that were released early were not the best wines, but those that saw more time on the lees have done quite well and are aging much more slowly than normal. The year was certainly different and many folks decided to bypass the vintage wines rather than risk something that didn’t turn out so well. Many of my favorites from 2003 are Rosés as the wines are much deeper and bolder than the norm and to me really tilt towards Burgnudy in style rather than a typical Champagne. I actually really like the 2003 DP Rosé (and the 2003 Moet Grand Vintage Rosé which is similar in style) for its different yet still DP-like and high quality expression. It certainly isn’t the 96 or 02 DP Rosé and isn’t classical or elegant, but it is a top representation of the year IMO.

If DP was only about money they would have made 1997, 2001, 2007, 2011, 1999 Rose, etc…

Brad_Baker · October 24, 2021, 2:49pm

2017 was a vintage more similar to 2010 in terms of its challenges - clean grapes were a problem. Additionally, many of the wines, when clean, come across as diluted to me. For large volume producers, 2017 was a nightmare. You could make good 2017 especially from top Chardonnays, but you had to be selective and quantities were limited. As usual, site specific or lower volume cuvees are going to be the easiest. The only thing that really saved 2017 on a large quantity scale was the very good quality and quantity harvest from 2018. It allowed producers to switch out all the 2017s they had in reserve with much better wines from 2018. If folks would have been forced to use what they had in reserve from 2017, it would not have been good for many.

IlkkaL · October 24, 2021, 3:34pm

As for poor vintages this century, 2001 is by far the worst. 2010, 2011, and 2017 are the next worst, but no where near as bad as 2001.

Do you think 2017 was bad as uniformly as 2011? I have tried to avoid 2011 like the plague regardless of the producer - had no idea about the 2017 vintage generalizations so just bought Bereche’s Rive Gauche as the wines tend to sell out so quickly these days…

2017 was a vintage more similar to 2010 in terms of its challenges - clean grapes were a problem. Additionally, many of the wines, when clean, come across as diluted to me. For large volume producers, 2017 was a nightmare. You could make good 2017 especially from top Chardonnays, but you had to be selective and quantities were limited. As usual, site specific or lower volume cuvees are going to be the easiest. The only thing that really saved 2017 on a large quantity scale was the very good quality and quantity harvest from 2018. It allowed producers to switch out all the 2017s they had in reserve with much better wines from 2018. If folks would have been forced to use what they had in reserve from 2017, it would not have been good for many.

Much appreciated!

Oh well, at least the Rive Gauche certainly is not made in large quantities…