I will add that Gruner can age extremely well. I bought a 1947 Freie Weingarten Kellerberg back from the domain about 15 years that was excellent and would have been even better if the cork had held up. And have had many at 20+ years of age or more.
What I find about older Austrian wines is whether they are Chardonnay, Gruner or Riesling after 20 years ago they converge into something that is just Austrian / Wachau and lose varietal character.
If there is one thing that makes me less interested in a category itâs when ânaturalâ becomes a thing.
Luckily there are plenty of amazing producers of Austrian wine who are not jumping on the latest bandwagon.
I had a wonderful 2014 Nikolaihof Vom Stein Smaragd Riesling last night. 12.5% so not overdone. Everything I like in Austrian Riesling. Loads of pit fruit and dry extract. Bone dry. Wish had more left.
I was very excited by this article as Iâm going to MAST in Vienna. But it seems like their list doesnât intersect those listed here.
Any suggestions for dry Riesling on their list (or a Gruner)?
(List is here: Weine - MAST Weinbistro , click on Weinkarte)
âââââââââââââ
the wine list at MAST is really up-to-the minuteâŚ
what i would do is to see if Breitzke or Pitra is in the house, indicate to them what you would like to spend
and what you might be dining on â the catfish with chanterelles looks quite appealing
I donât think the antifreeze scandal has any meaningful impact on todayâs market.
As to why Austrian Riesling isnât more popular, I think itâs basically because itâs Riesling. Most US wine drinkers assume it will be sweet, even when theyâre told otherwise. Sure, there are lots of people who know better, but those in the know tend to gravitate more toward dry German Riesling these days, as we can see in this thread. I include myself in that group. I totally agree that thereâs fantastic value at the low and medium end from Austria. I donât agree that the top wines are better values than German counterparts, as long as weâre not only talking about Keller.
In the USA, the wines just arenât that available. And when they are I tend to choose other wines. I should probably correct that by seeking out the suggestions here.
during the years when i was actively promoting both,
i used to oversimplify the contrast just a wee bit in the characterisation,
German Riesling is a ballerina; Austrian Riesling is a linebackerâŚ
Completely agree that the perceived sweetness of Riesling being the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Mention Riesling to most people and theyâll scrunch up their face and say they donât like sweet wine. Additionally, while Austrian wines may be a value to White Burgundy drinkers, theyâre not cheap. While I and others that enjoy them can certainly argue that you can drink some of the greatest wines in the world much cheaper than what the best would cost in other regions, most of the wine drinking public donât want to spend $40-$70 on a white wine.
As for Gruner, Iâm generally not the biggest fan, but an aged Brundlmayer that Joe Dougherty once brought to dinner at my place to pair with butternut squash soup was a revelation and one of the best food and wine pairings Iâve had. I know a bunch of folks here remember Joe, but for those who donât, he was a huge proponent of Austrian wines starting in the late '90s and turned alot of folks in the NY wine scene and wine bulletin boards, on to them.
somebody above mentioned the 1985 scandal â
i just this past month translated the winegrowersâ association Ăsterreichische TraditionsweingĂźterâs
30th anniversary yearbookâŚ
in his foreword, Michi Moosbrugger (Schloss Gobelsburg) points out that Austria immediately responded,
that very same year passing the most stringent wine law in Europe,
and bringing into existence entities like the Austrian Wine Marketing Board (ĂWM)
which have since given that lovely nation a vinous footprint on the world map far beyond the dimensions of its geographic area
â some folks are more apt to remember that there was once upon a time a certain scandal
than to follow up and see how those affected responded and what the current state of things might beâŚ
Speaking of Mr. Moosbrugger of Schloss Gobelsburg, David Schildknect recently did a wonderful interview with him. The first half was published in the most recent issue of Trink.
Yes you are correct at a high level Riesling is a hard sell. But when you compare the availability and interest in top Austrians to their German counterparts the Germans have surpassed them by a large margin.
There is so much misconception, or outright wrong in this thread. But Iâve spent 20 years keeping quiet about Austrian Riesling, and donât intend to change that now 
Joe, Kirk Wallace and Mark Ellenbogen at the Slanted Door were the first ones I knew that were really hardcore Austrian fans. I brought the 47 I mentioned above to a dinner with Joe and Kirk.
I still have lots of older ones if anyone wants to do a dinner in NYC and would be happy to source some newer ones to see what is going on these days.
And while only old folks remember the antifreeze scandal, German wine market share wasnât zero in 1989, while Iâm guessing Austrian wine was.
More due to superior marketing, but a better starting point too.
Thatâs the elephant in the room, not the 800 pound gorilla.
Sorry I donât make the rules.
You are correct, sir. Thatâs what happens when you try typing a post while listening to someone drone on on the phone.
Btw, to Alan, the lineage of your spark in Austrian wines actually leads to Dougherty as he influenced Jim. We all participated on Robin Garrâs Wine Lovers Discussion Group and Wine Therapy/Winedisorder back in the day.
It might have even been on Garrâs board. Either that or WCWN.
These two, Hirtzberger in particular, are probably not good recs for someone who thinks Austrian wines are higher in ABV than German.
I think I introduced Jim to Austrian wine long ago at a dinner in Atlanta. It was a Hirtzberger IIRC. Callahan introduced me to Austrian wine, but I donât know whether Dougherty influenced him, he influenced Joe, or they discovered the wines separately.
[quote=âRobert_Dentice, post:40, topic:286863, full:trueâ]What I find about older Austrian wines is whether they are Chardonnay, Gruner or Riesling after 20 years ago they converge into something that is just Austrian / Wachau and lose varietal character.
[/quote]
This is very much the issue for me. I think this thread assumes one of its key underlying questions (is Austrian Riesling as good as German Riesling?) To me, the answer is likely along the lines of Occamâs Razor - people just donât like the wines as much.