Why German Red Wines Used to Suck (and No Longer Do) The Coming New German Pinot Noir Revolution

[StevenB]

I think this is a very well written and informed post. Still, I don’t agree with the conclusion and think it will take at least another decade until German Spätburgunders above a certain level are good enough and especially long lasting enough to justify buying them. Like jcoley3 it’s the less expensive ones I usually seek out. Wines such as the basic Spätburgunder by Katharina Wechsler, by Huber or the Village Spätburgunder by Enderle & Moll are great value wines. In the upper range, for my taste there’s still not enough know how and experience to make truly great Pinots. Lyle, you mention stems. In my experience, some growers still need some years of experience in order to figure out in which vintage, from which parcels and to what extent to use stems so that they add structure and complexity, but don’t taste stemmy. A recently drunk Martin Waßmer 2007 Spätburgunder GC (50 Euros for that matter) tasted stemmy and not balanced. Next is the oak issue you mention. It has taken Burgundian producers decades to figure out which barrel providers to pick, which toast, which mix of different barrel providers and toast, the amount of new oak, etc. I still drink too many Spätburgunders matured in oak where that balance has not yet been found. Finally, and that’s maybe the most important, is the clones and the vine age. As far as I know, for every producer of Spätburgunder, there’s the issue of either taking the existing vines (often times the Freiburg clones) or planting new ones which will then be of better quality (at lower yields), but will not have a decent age for years. I’ve been drinking Spätburgunder at different levels for years and I feel like I spent too much money on not satisfying wines, which don’t age well. It’s been proclaimed for at least a decade that the golden age of the German Spätburgunder is coming. I’m not sure it has already arrived.

[Alan_C_h_a_n]

Hey Lyle, our pal Stefan Steinmetz gave me a dornfelder to throw into a blind tasting and it was pretty good (and pretty well received by the group)!

Was the gist of DavidZ’s comment an allegation of pecuniary interest?

[Martin_Zwick]

25th october will be “BerlinSpätburgunderCup”. Stay tuned…

I strongly recommend 2013 Benedikt Baltes “Schlossberg” Spätburgunder GG from Franken. Magic stuff.


Prost,
Martin

[Lyle_Fass]

@dbailey

Lyle,

It’s funny but your post very eloquently explains the rather Damascene conversion to German Pinot that I experienced last year. I thought that the Ziereisen and schloss lieser 2011s and the Keller 2012 pinots were excellent.

Dan

Thanks Dan. Really love what Ziereisen is doing and KP is the man!

[Lyle_Fass]

@StevenB

I think this is a very well written and informed post. Still, I don’t agree with the conclusion and think it will take at least another decade until German Spätburgunders above a certain level are good enough and especially long lasting enough to justify buying them. Like jcoley3 it’s the less expensive ones I usually seek out. Wines such as the basic Spätburgunder by Katharina Wechsler, by Huber or the Village Spätburgunder by Enderle & Moll are great value wines. In the upper range, for my taste there’s still not enough know how and experience to make truly great Pinots. Lyle, you mention stems. In my experience, some growers still need some years of experience in order to figure out in which vintage, from which parcels and to what extent to use stems so that they add structure and complexity, but don’t taste stemmy. A recently drunk Martin Waßmer 2007 Spätburgunder GC (50 Euros for that matter) tasted stemmy and not balanced. Next is the oak issue you mention. It has taken Burgundian producers decades to figure out which barrel providers to pick, which toast, which mix of different barrel providers and toast, the amount of new oak, etc. I still drink too many Spätburgunders matured in oak where that balance has not yet been found. Finally, and that’s maybe the most important, is the clones and the vine age. As far as I know, for every producer of Spätburgunder, there’s the issue of either taking the existing vines (often times the Freiburg clones) or planting new ones which will then be of better quality (at lower yields), but will not have a decent age for years. I’ve been drinking Spätburgunder at different levels for years and I feel like I spent too much money on not satisfying wines, which don’t age well. It’s been proclaimed for at least a decade that the golden age of the German Spätburgunder is coming. I’m not sure it has already arrived.

Steven,

Great post. I agree more time is needed and a community of wine growers needs to arise to exchange ideas about elevage, clones and stem inclusion/exclusion. I also think the top is thinner than people want to admit. I won’t mention names but at the top top in Germany, like DRC/Fourrier/Rousseau level are very few, but there also very few in Burgundy, the problem is that next level is mostly garbage in Germany while there are 3-6 levels below DRC in Burgundy that are great wines. You have super elite guys in Germany, that are a handful, and then a massive dropoff.

Sebastien Fuerst really gets it with his barrels. When I recently visited this past SEPT, he showed me some barrels that he gets from a cooper who makes one barrel a day. He has a nice mix and seems really knowledgable. That is also because he trained in Burgundy and is a huge Burgundy drinker and lover. He also has a protege making terrific wines in Burgundy at Domaine de Chantereves (which I do not work with, but I tried!). But back to Spaetburgunder . . .I think a solution is to plant the new clones and take out the old ones on a gradual basis, but not sure that is practical from a financial perspective. Blend them at first, and then separate once they reach 3-5 years of age. I’ve had killer Pinot from vines of 3-5 years of age in Germany.

[Lyle_Fass]

@Alan C h a n

Hey Lyle, our pal Stefan Steinmetz gave me a dornfelder to throw into a blind tasting and it was pretty good (and pretty well received by the group)!

Was the gist of DavidZ’s comment an allegation of pecuniary interest?

There can be a few good Dornfelders but most are forgettable at best.

[Ian_Sutton]

Definitely an area I’m testing the waters with, after drinking a wonderful spatburgunder a few years ago. Difficult to find here, even though they are very popular in Germany.

[Matcohen]

@Ian Sutton

Definitely an area I’m testing the waters with, after drinking a wonderful spatburgunder a few years ago. Difficult to find here, even though they are very popular in Germany.

Howard Ripley imports a ton of Ziereisen, considered by many to be the top German red wine producer.
https://www.howardripley.com/producers/german/gg-offer

Enjoy.

[Ian_Sutton]

Mat
Thanks for that. Howard Ripley have very good reputation for all things German here - and IIRC have put together tasting cases in the past, which is the direction I probably will go. Occasional bottles seem to pop up at other merchants, one suspects more out of following their own interest, than thinking they’re onto the next big thing commercially. Indeed they’re probably the same merchants who persisted with german Riesling in the wake of the disastrous effect Liebfraumilch & Piesporter had on perceptions of German wine.
regards
Ian

[Dav1dZ]

@Alan C h a n

Hey Lyle, our pal Stefan Steinmetz gave me a dornfelder to throw into a blind tasting and it was pretty good (and pretty well received by the group)!

Was the gist of DavidZ’s comment an allegation of pecuniary interest?

Of course it was! Wine is not zero-sum; Lyle sells German wine; he puts up a long post about German wine getting better. There’s nothing wrong with ITB folks pimping wines that they sell but there’s also nothing wrong with pointing out that, well, they are pimping wines that they sell. Folks can make their own judgments.

[G_Bienstock]

Are the best PN soils in Germany slate or do limestone deposits exist that work better? Perhaps another soil type?

[Dennis_Kanagie]

I’ve been on the lookout for a sub-$30 bottle of Burgundy / Pinot Noir for a while so I’m only commenting to keep this in my queue.

Thanks for the tip on 2013 Benedikt Baltes “Schlossberg” Spätburgunder GG. Might try some soon if I can find it.

[Arv_R]

@Lyle Fass

Anyone who has been to a German winery to taste will tell you about the dreaded moment that lingers over the tasting. It’s when they bring out the red wines. You sit down, you have pleasant conversation, 15 delicious, well made white wines in increasing order of sweetness. And finally, they ask you if you want to try the reds. Your stomach grumbles in fearful anticipation, you wince, try not to show your fear and say “yes, I’d love to.”

Now if you are really unlucky, they bring out the Dornfelder. Dornfelder is this incredibly high yield grape (with clusters twice the size of a cow’s udder) used to make reliably cheap and horrid red wines for “local consumption.” Local consumption means that no one who has access to wine that is grown more than 5 miles from the winery would ever buy them. They are basically German Thunderbird.

If you are slightly less unlucky, they bring out the pinot noir. The nose is what I like to call “Spatburgundery.” A sort of nasty combination of green peppers and gasoline. The wines typically tasted of new oak and lacked much fruit. Overall, a ghastly experience.

(I must say that a few producers always made good or great red wine - I include Sebastien Furst, Rebholz and Huber as examples).

The Germans are among the most efficient people on earth. I’ve known them to serve soft boiled eggs with a timer so that they are eaten after the exactly proper number of seconds of post-cooking rest. They make some of the best engineered cars in the world. Cameras. Industrial equipment, you name it. You can get through a German airport in about 5 minutes. And, of course, they are famous for riesling. Like them or not, both sweet and now dry rieslings are very well made and consistent. And Geisenheim (their most famous wine school) is reliably churning out new, talented winemakers like a factory.

So why did the red wines suck so badly for so long? And why are they finally getting better?

Clueless About Wood

German Riesling is generally fermented in steel and/or large wooden barrels that do not add much wood flavor. The Germans, as a result, do not have much experience with the effects of wood on wine (good and bad). This extends to their professors at Geisenheim (according to a young German winemaker who is a recent graduate). As such, they had no idea how to age their wines in wood so as to provide structure and certain flavors but not take over and dominate the wines.

Climate

While there are many microclimates in Germany and the South is, obviously, hotter, the German climate is relatively cool. 40 years ago, they had difficulty getting grapes to be ripe with developed flavors.

Technique

There are many lesser well known techniques that allow winemakers to tweak the flavor of their wines. I’m not talking about the mad science of recent years (like reverse osmosis) but relatively simple things like adding stems or controlling temperature during fermentation. I was with a very famous, well regarded German maker of red wine who said that this vintage was the first year that he had added stems to his wine. The point is that because there so few winemakers making quality red wine, there was no community to experiment with and share these techniques. Winemakers frequently meet and taste each other’s wines share ideas and see how they work. This didn’t really happen with fine red wine as few people were making it.

The Reduction in Suck and the Path to Greatness

A few years ago, I started to notice that the general suckiness of German reds was starting to decrease. Now I am seeing a trend of German red wines actually starting to be great.

First, the climate is generally hotter and more German winemakers are trying to make red wine.

Second, many young Germans are apprenticing at well regarded makers of red wine (in Germany and Burgundy).

Third, Germans are learning how to make red wine in their climate. They are learning how to use wood. And this knowledge is spreading.

I am not arguing that the German red wine industry is ready to take on Burgundy’s best. There are some producers making excellent red wine to rival some very good producers in France. And why not? Political boundaries are the work of man, not nature or God. Geologic formations and soil types know nothing of politics and Germany is a giant country with many microclimates. Some regions are generally well situated for pinot noir and others have microclimates that can allow for the making of great pinot noir.

Germany is already the third largest maker of pinot noir in the world. They are on their way to being a large producer of quality pinot noir.

And red wine experts are starting to notice. Tim Atkin conducted a famous blind tasting of 400 German Pinot Noirs in 2011 and selected 20 as the representatives of Germany for an international testing (judges included Jancis Robinson and Stephan Reinhardt).
http://www.timatkin.com/articles?250 The Germans reds were 7 of the top 13 scorers and 2 of the top 3 scorers (they were over-represented) but outperformed several top tier Burgundies (including Dujac’s 2007 MSD).

Some of the new German Pinot Noir is more traditionally Burgundian. When aged, it is richer and tastes of sweet wood. But some is sort of like the dry Riesling version of Pinot. Heavily mineralic and just exquisitely refined and balanced. The fruit is there but the wine is not about the fruit. It’s about the aromatics and mineral/fruit/acid balance. These are early days as the number of very good and great producers still count in the low dozens. But a New German pinot noir style is in the making in front of our eyes. It is almost at critical mass.

These wines are still very, very inexpensive compared to their pinot counterparts in France and the US. That is changing as the Germans learn about these wines and bid up their prices. But make no mistake, the German Pinot Noir revolution is underway.

Great post Lyle, with a dry sense of humor as well.

This is one of the positives of global warming - more good wine, more ripe vintages.

[Dennis_Kanagie]

@Arv R

Great post Lyle, with a dry sense of humor as well.

This is one of the positives of global warming - more good wine, more ripe vintages.

Too bad Al Gore wasn’t a wine drinker.

[Gene_Vance]

I agree about the red wine tasting in the past, and that goes back to my grad school days in SW Germany, when they broke out “a Viertele” of the dreaded Swabian Trollinger.

In recent years, I am really liking German and Austrian Pinot. Enderle and Moll is a great example at a reasonable price and at the top end, Meyer-Näkel has blown away a couple of pinot tastings I’ve hosted. On the Austrian side, Markowitsch makes a light but satisfying under-$20 pinot which is what I used to seek out in Burgundy. This is an exciting time for German and Austrian reds.

[Kirk.Grant]

I have only been buying from Lyle for the past year. However, I’ll say that from what I’ve tasted from his profile…I’ve been greatly impressed and I think it’s safe to say that with some investment in conversations like this there’s a lot more that can be discovered in Germany and other areas of the world. For me, it comes down to trusting a producer…and then finding an importer that has a similar mind of what wines are exciting and moving through with that process to follow the importer. My wine-buying budget has been cut thinner with the recent purchase of a new home and a pending trip to Italy in fall of next year. However, when I see certain producers wines offered I jump as high as the budget allows for the given month. I’m happy that there are still some hidden gems to stash away…just like I’m happy that many people haven’t jumped deep into cellaring Beaujolais like they do Burgundy. It makes it easier on the wallet.

[Matthew_King]

@Arv R

This is one of the positives of global warming - more good wine, more ripe vintages.

Yes, but there’s a flip side to climate change. Wine-growing regions that already run a little hot but make good wines may tip over the edge …More heat and riper vintages aren’t what I’m looking for in, say, Chateauneuf du Pape or Santa Barbara County …

[John_Morris]

I’ve been sampling Spatburgunders for 15 years or so, mostly with disappointing results, I’m sorry to say. My brown-bad group has had more than its share of mediocrities inflicted on it in my pursuit of a good SB.

I would love to love them. At least here in the US it seems you have to really pay up for the better one.

I posted last year on three I served with a dinner:
2005 Kopp - Spätburgunder “S” Trocken (Baden)
2004 Fürst – Klingenberger (Schlossberg) – Spätburgunder “R” (Franken)
2008 Rebholz – Pinot Noir Tradition Spätburgunder Dry (Pfalz)

They were all good, but none moved me to buy more.

I remember a 96 Bercher Burkheim from Baden that I had in 2002 that drank very nicely. Anyone know anything about them?

I think Lyle is right about the trend away for over-oaking. I sampled a slew of SBs at the VDP tasting in Berlin in 2000 that were, almost without exception, overripe and over-oaked.

[Markus_S]

@DavidZ

@Alan C h a n

Hey Lyle, our pal Stefan Steinmetz gave me a dornfelder to throw into a blind tasting and it was pretty good (and pretty well received by the group)!

Was the gist of DavidZ’s comment an allegation of pecuniary interest?

Of course it was! Wine is not zero-sum; Lyle sells German wine; he puts up a long post about German wine getting better. There’s nothing wrong with ITB folks pimping wines that they sell but there’s also nothing wrong with pointing out that, well, they are pimping wines that they sell. Folks can make their own judgments.

I always wonder why people get jumped on for pointing out someone has a commercial business behind what they are posting about. I see nothing wrong with merchants posting here either, but being in the business world, they ought to have thicker skin.

I’ve have mixed results with German pinot. The best ones have an airy delicacy to them. The worst seem to have goopy oak applied to a glossy base. But I am sure they are becoming better if only because there are so many more in the game and they are being exported (thanks to folks like Lyle). I think they are still learning though.

[Tran_Bronstein]

There have been several German wine fairs here in Tornot over the time I became a Berserker here and I definitely see and taste a change in German red wine. I would agree that it is a lack of understanding of how to properly use oak that is the issue and things are definitely changing in that regard.

Oddly, it was a German Merlot that first caused me to raise my eyebrow and look into their reds. Previously, German Pinot Noir to me was way worse than Ontario Pinot Noir and that’s not really a high bar to begin with in most cases. Since then, I have noticed a marked trend to easing off the oak and allowing the delicate cool climate fruit flavor to shine through.

As is the case with most winemaking regions, the Germans have to restrain their use of new oak and find the right balance for their fruit. I would personally love it if they went entirely unoaked and treated their Merlot and Pinot Noir the way they do their Riesling or at least use entirely used oak. Perhaps not to everyone’s tastes but it would certainly make them stand out a lot more.