This is a great summation. I would disagree somewhat with the “non-competer” definition. The “bid early and see what happens” actually compete in more auctions, simply b/c they’re able to place a bid. Folks in the sniper camp don’t “compete” in as many auctions, as they’re inevitably going to be priced out before some (or many) auctions end.
I’m not sure I agree. I won’t put in a bid I’m the first place if I don’t care about acquiring the wine. I don’t care enough to pay more than I want to, though. That may be more about caring about not losing in some cases.
The only auction that I participated in that went above by preset price was an auction for a chandelier that I attended with my wife. Three people were active bidders, and I ended up with the high bid at me limit. A fifth bidder came in and out bidded me. The auctioneer looked at me and I shook my head “no”, but my wife grabbed my paddle from my lap and raised it. We won on that bid, but I felt no better having won he chandelier at $500 more than I was willing to pay
I don’t know if this is really correct, but my sense is that if items are lightly contested, then you will statistically be better off bidding early, and if they are heavily contested you may be better off sniping.
But keep in mind sniping never defeats anyone who is bidding rationally. It can only work against people who didn’t bid their max, whether they bid early or late.
I guess the real definition of sniping involves taking advantage of poor/unprepared competitors, so you both win and get a good price. But, I have no doubt there are many out there who get some ego stroking thrill out of waiting til the last second to put in a bid higher than anyone else was willing to pay, and get off thinking they’re some great winner. Reminds me of the type of person I occasionally encountered playing pool. They watch quietly, like a normal person, as you shoot. Then, if you’re faced with a near-impossible shot they go for the distraction. Seriously? They strut around like a total jackass if you miss that one-in-a-hundred shot, thinking it some great victory. A few moments later you’re making a point running out on them, seeing if they respectfully shake your hand “good game”, watching if they sign up for the hour wait to play again, or just slink away. Watching someone pay 20% over market on a regularly available wine I was interested in just makes me shrug. If it gives them a need to change underwear, that’s fine, I suppose.
I was holding back from this response, because most of the responses appear to be about strategy. Even the OP appears to question why someone would bid early. How about because it is available? Because you might just get something you want at the lowest price? If the auction house only wanted to allow a few hours of bidding, perhaps they would set it up that way.
But Merrill, do you think the auction houses are stupid? Allowing a week of perusal and early bidding might seem like the equivalent of territorial pissing, except that it is anonymous so there is really no repercussion of outbidding. The early bidder may somehow think he has “laid claim” to the lot at a low price, and may think he or she has an index, as he or she looks through his list of bids, of how much money is on the table. But he or she has (a) flagged the lot as something of value and (b) telegraphed that he or she may or may not come back later to outbid another higher bidder. Both (a) and (b) encourage further bidding. The price goes up. The auction house wins.
I don’t buy much at auction anymore, but was very active for a time in online and live/online whisky and wine auctions. I usually bid early on what I wanted, with automatic increases to my maximum. Then I quit watching for the most part until the auction ended. I won what I wanted more times than not for the price I was prepared to pay before placing my initial bid.
Seems pretty straightforward; what am I missing?
The auction house wins.
That’s right.
For any auction, the actions of the individual bidders are related to the importance of the outcome and in some cases, as Wes points out, the outcome is financially irrational. The idea is to somehow make it important to bidders.
For a lot of men I’ve seen at auctions, acquiring the item becomes so important that they pay more than they would had they not been participating in the auction. Both the seller and the auction house win.
But for others, who are less invested, it’s like going to the market and finding out the ladies who run Canine Companions are having a bake sale. You weren’t really looking for cookies but you know one of the ladies is a great baker and there’s a nice fresh chocolate chip cookie so you figure you’ll pick it up when you’re done shopping. If it’s still there, you have a cookie for lunch. If not, your waistline is probably happier anyway.
Or in my case, the lady knows me so she comes over and hands me a cookie she set aside for me. If only that would happen with wine one day.
Well, what I see is that someone who wants the wine the most, and will pay the most, gets the wine. And the auction house, who IS IN BUSINESS, does what they are in business to do. Make money.
I totally agree. But that point, appropriately reductive, is the brilliance of the business model - it is designed to let people’s declared interest in a wine suggest to others to bid it up. It is completely true that whoever pays the most wins, but the OP was talking about bidding strategy, not the business model of the auction houses.
My point has been, and continues to be, that if you come in and bid at the very last minute, you may win and you may lose, but you are more likely to win paying less than if you goad other bidders by outbidding them while they still have ample time to respond. If no one else wants the wine, it’s a moot point and the first and only bid will win, but you can do that on WB at 9:59:58 on sunday too and not give anyone else a chance to bid you a dollar higher.
BTW - WineBid closing in 15min. Set your alarm and get your sniping gloves on…
I blame this thread for the higher than anticipated prices on all my wines
15 out of my 36 bottles were sniped in the last 5 minutes tonight, but I was kind of relieved because I’ve already spent too much money this year.
I was talking to someone who works in Silicon Valley. He said he knows people that just place a bid for 1k on a $200 wine because 1) they are too busy to go back and track the item and 2) so they don’t ever lose the wine they want.
That strategy renders this discussion moot.
Lots with no bids only : Many a savvy winebid bidder knows that some wines sit will around long and ultimately reduce in price and wait it out patiently. By last minute bidding you steal that pleasure from them and chances are they will curse you when the new auction opens because they have seen a good bottle(s) at a great price disappear in the last moments BEFORE they can add a bit more. Produttori de Barolo for $25 per? Yes please, I’ll take all six and there was more than a few potential bidders watching I’d bet. Had I bid early it would have went over $30, maybe even $35 per. Still a good deal too. Bottom fishing pays off. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I saw some Pichon Lalande, either 2000 or 1996, go for $400/bottle in a K&L auction once. My guess was that it was two such bidders. The identical wine was in K&L’s inventory at that time for about $200.
I do this too. And have it done to me. All part of the process. Anyone who plays the waiting game to see the price lowered over several weeks knows the risk is someone will come in on Sunday night to win the auction and shut out the wait-er OR buy part of a multi-bottle lot and thereby prevent a price lowering the next week.
Sounds to me that those playing the waiting game really don’t care for the Produttori at current $25 price and are just waiting to see if they can buy lower, perhaps at $20.
Indeed, and ONLY then does $25 seem like the deal it actually is! (I mean WAS).
Maybe. If it’s $25 hammer, times 6, add 17%, add shipping, the Produttori may be a good value for some and not others.
Some people care about the extra $5 per bottle, some care about getting the deal, some care about one-upping the other lot watchers, others could care less about price.
Me, I’m largely looking for good prices on undervalued old Bordeaux. I won’t chase them into overpriced territory. Everything else I find on WB is gravy and temptation. I don’t need more wine but per the other threads it’s hard to stop …