We’ve all said it a thousand times, but you’re a hero, Don. Thanks for everything you do for the wine community.
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Thank you Chris! In the case of premox, it all started because I love white burgundy and really hated that I was dumping so much of it down the drain. I’m very happy to say that with the producers who use DIAM i am now confident of opening white wines that are ten years old or beyond.
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How comprehensive/current do you think your Diam listing is on your website (when it gets back up and running)?
I don’t mean that as a demand, just wondering how much to rely on that or not.
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(Who is using DIAM? - #163 by Chris_Seiber)
How comprehensive/current do you think your Diam listing is on your website (when it gets back up and running)?
I don’t mean that as a demand, just wondering how much to rely on that or not.
Chris:
I can’t be sure. I attempt to obtain information from the various reviewers when they publish notes on their annual tasting visits, plus whatever data I can obtain on my own. But I think that this is the only list of its type that’s been published.
I did add a few updates today after the site went back up There are also a few producers like Michel Bouzereau and Domaine Laroche in Chablis where there have been some reports about bottles closed with DIAM, but where it is not clear whether this is all bottles or not. I attempt to be sure I know that before I include them on my list.
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One I looked up, because I recently bought a bunch of Chassagne 1er Maltroie from the producer, is Armand Heitz. According to Jasper Morris, they use Diam starting the 2016 vintage.
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DIAM - yet another reason to buy Ramey Chardonnays.
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What have you found the aging of their SVD chardonnays to be like?
Aside from not being premoxed, do they improve? When do you think of them being in their prime zone?
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Maybe producers should start listing the closure on the back label. I’ve never thought about doing it, but it’s important information.
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The aging has been fantastic. It’s not just me. David Ramey does an annual vintage retrospective at the winery, and the results have been (according to him) fantastic.
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John and Chris:
Here is the current list from the Oxidized Burgundies wiki site:
LIST OF PRODUCERS USING DIAM FOR SUBSTANTIALLY ALL BOTTLINGS (and vintage of inception of complete use) [UPDATED-- JUNE 2024]
Roger Belland (2009)
Samuel Billaud (2019?)(Note: grand crus remain under cork)
Bouchard Pere (2009)
Michel Bouzereau (2022)
Jean-Marc Brocard (2012)
Chanson (2013)
Jean Charton (2020)
Vincent & Jean-Pierre Chartron (2020?)
Maison Chanzy (2021?)
Chateau de Meursault (2020)
Chateau de Puligny Montrachet (2009)
Fabien Coche (2018)
Marc Colin (2016)
Joseph Colin (2017)
Jean Collet [Chablis] (2015, but excludes US imports through Kermit Lynch)
Daniel Dampt (2014) (90% of production. Since 2020, 100% of production)
Sebastian Dampt (2015?)
Vincent Dampt (2015?)
de Bellene and Roche de Bellene (2011)
Droin (2011)
William Fevre (2010)
Alain Gutheron (2020?)
Guffens-Heynen (2011)
Antonin Guyon (2018)
Maison Harbour (2013)
Heitz-Lochardet (2015)
Jadot (2011)
Antoine Jobard (2022)
William Kelley (2022)
Lafon (2013)
Domaine de Lambrays (2020)
Hubert Lamy (2017 for 80% of production; 2019 for 100% of production)
Louis Latour (2022)
Vincent Latour (2020) (used on some sines in prior vintages)
Domaine Leflaive (2014) [but be somewhat wary of big cut in SO2 use in 2015]
Olivier Leflaive (2012)
Benjamin Leroux (2020) [Note: only 20 ppm free SO2 with Diam 30 and excludes magnums]
Long-Depaquit (Bichot) (2018)
Duc du Magenta (inception date unclear)
Louis Michel (2021)
Christian Moreau (2017) (2017-2019 Excludes Clos des Hospices; beginning 2020-all DIAM)
Louis Moreau [Chablis] (2016)
Montille (also Deux Montille and Maison Montille) (2009)
Meurgey-Croses (2019)
Niellon (2022) [but excludes grand crus]
Hugues Pavelot (2019)
Domaine de Pavillon (Bichot) (2018)
Paul Pernot (2017)
F&L Pillot (2010)
Prieur (2013)
Rapet (2017)
Tollot-Beaut (2017)
Jean-Marc Vincent (2017)
Vocoret et Fils [Chablis] (2015)
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I went to the young sommelier finals and David Ramey gave a lecture in which he said that Diam should be the current standard.
I can agree with that, and I was a huge proponent of screw caps for many years.
How should we think about diam in low humidity conditions? Assuming humidity matters for normal corks, is diam more forgiving?
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I’m pretty sure that Jean-Marc Vincent in Santenay uses DIAM for all wines. Not sure when he started.
Clotilde Davenne uses DIAM in her Grand Cru (DIAM 10) and I presume in her Premier Cru as well. She uses screw cap in her entry level wines.
I notice Dujac isn’t on Don’s list - I don’t know what the situation is for their higher-end wines, but I lucked into several vintages of their Bourgogne Blanc, and they have all been under DIAM.
From the 2017 IIRC, excepting what he sent to The Wine Society in the UK who demanded Diam before then.
i have some pataille chardos under diam…
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As a supporter of DIAM, and a mortal enemy of premoxed wines, this brings to mind some questions:
- Even though the wines under DIAM apparently remain pristine and free from premox, do they develop the characteristics of maturity after 10-15 years as we might have expected our WB’s to do in the pre-premox vintages such as those in the 80’s and early 90’s? Hey, I’d rather have pristine than dump them down the drain, but I have not had experience tasting older bottles under DIAM to know the answer.
- If they do not achieve the wished-for development under DIAM, then would it be theoretically preferable to bottle wines under DIAM 5 when one wanted to drink them with some safe development at, say, year 10? Or DIAM 10 if one planned to age them 15 years? Or would the presumed underlying vulnerability of the wines, as yet without explanation, come back to bite you?
- How should producers handle their sulfur levels at bottling in light of DIAM. iI may be a mistake to presume all is well and lower the sulfur levels, but is any modification needed?
Anyone’s experience with aged wines under DIAM where the producer’s sulfur regiment is known, and how the wines fared and whether any excessive sulfur, if there was any, blew off satisfactorily?
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I don’t know the specific answer here, but I do think the common premise (“wines develop desired complexity with age because of oxygen permeation through the cork”) is highly questionable. White wines sealed with screwcaps mature and evolve, they just don’t become premoxed.
Try a 10 year old Tercero white, or an aged Aussie riesling. The screwcap doesn’t just freeze them into some unchanged state, at all. I can’t say how different, better or worse a non-premoxed bottle of the same wine and vintage finished with a cork would taste, but I can say for sure that the wines age and mature under the screwcap.
I know we are talking about DIAM here and not screwcaps, but I thought the experience with screwcaps was relevant to your question about how whites age under DIAM.
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