Who do you trust most

[Brian_Tuite]

@Ian Sutton

No, definitely would trust none of them to buy on scores alone.

However I’d happily read the tasting notes from a cross-section of them, and if anything jumped out as (personally) interesting to try, then yes I might well buy a bottle to give it a go. Perhaps even Suckling.

Being that most of my purchases are from mailing lists I tend to buy the majortity of my wine before it is professionally scored. Trust your palate, buy what you like. Flyers are experiments, they’re for data collection.

[Sc0tt_F_tzgerald]

I think “CellarTracker average” is too precise a way of describing CT as an option. I don’t just look at the CT average score…I also read the notes. And in agreement with the point above, I’d rather read notes from 30 people who have tried a wine (particularly a wine geek wine - not something like Caymus) over time vs. a professional reviewer trying something from barrel after 50 similar tastings the same day. It’s all just data that helps with the decision making process.

[Subu_Ramachandran]

@Ian Sutton

However I’d happily read the tasting notes from a cross-section of them, and if anything jumped out as (personally) interesting to try, then yes I might well buy a bottle to give it a go. Perhaps even Suckling.

Agreed!

@Scott Fitzgerald

I also read the notes. And in agreement with the point above, I’d rather read notes from 30 people who have tried a wine (particularly a wine geek wine - not something like Caymus) over time vs. a professional reviewer trying something from barrel after 50 similar tastings the same day.

Well said!

[larry_schaffer]

@Tom Reddick

For my part, I do find CT useful at times. As with anything- over time you see certain voices you have come to trust and those voices carry more weight.

The greater issue I find is reading tasting notes for wines that were obviously compromised- CT exposes a truth many of us have long known, namely that there are a lot of people out there who do not have a strong personal knowledge of the wines they buy and then write notes describing classic heat damage- but attribute it to the wine itself being faulty.

Here is a follow up question to consider- what does the “trust” in the reviewer entail? Are you well acquainted with a given region/winery/vintage and looking for some thoughts before making a purchase, or are you not experienced and looking to place all your trust in another opinion?

If the latter- what is the end game? Are you hoping that someone else’s view on a given wine that you do not know well is going to give you assurance of a tasting experience that you want in X number of years? That is quite an unrealistic expectation.

The uncomfortable reality is that you need to need to frequently taste the wines you are interested in and then use critical reviews for more high level decisions- for example whether to increase or decrease your overall purchases in a given vintage. Beyond that, the reliance on someone else becomes too great. Within the confines of that, pretty much every established critic is of some use because you have a personal experience on which to interpret the notes you are reading.

Great comments about CT for sure, Tom - but one of the ‘challenges’ is being able to ‘confirm’ that a wine is ‘faulty’ and not just ‘off’. In fact, this is one of the biggest challenges at looking at tasting notes - that, and those folks who score a wine higher just because of producer/reputation even though there score would be MUCH lower if it were an ‘unknown’ . . .

Cheers.

[Steven_Orloff]

My palate calibrates best with AG in California and Italy. I am always pleasantly surprised by his picks in those regions (being a pessimist). I do like Dunnuck a lot in the rhone. He should be on the poll since he has started his own enterprise. I know a lot of people who swear by him. Personally, I was hoping that AG and Dunnuck would join forces. They would be formidable and had the greatest skill set (other than RP in his prime) at WA.

[Eric_Lundblad]

@Scott G r u n e r

(stuff deleted for brevity)
Re: shelf talkers… in my listed use case above they are useful and far more efficient than checking individual wines on my phone.

Shelf talkers can be great for narrowing down the options. But checking your preferred online source before buying seems easy/reasonable

[Anton_D]

We should add a corollary question: when faced with an unfamiliar wine from an unfamiliar vintage, how many hours does it take to decide what to do?

[Ian_Sutton]

@Anton D

We should add a corollary question: when faced with an unfamiliar wine from an unfamiliar vintage, how many hours does it take to decide what to do?

If in an appellation or grape/region I’m keen to explore / explore more, then I’m really happy to just pluck the wine off the shelf (e.g. Mencia from Spain, Fumin from Valle d’Aosta, etc.). Others where I’m aware style differences apply (e.g. Cahors, Puglian Primitivo), then I may want to find out a bit more before springing for a bottle.

Conversely, if there’s no great recognition / interest in the grape/region, then I’ll probably be past that wine instantly, scanning for something that I have a current interest in.

[Larry_P]

@Anton D

Unfamiliar vintage + unfamiliar wine + reasonable price = Damn, buy it and form my own opinion.

What is it about needing a benediction to try a new thing?

For a hobby populated by people who buy wine that costs multiple hundreds of dollars per cork, why would anybody need a shelf talker? It’s an unfamiliar vintage and an unfamiliar wine at a reasonable price! Start the party!

Seriously, what’s the worst the could happen?

But… If it’s an unfamiliar wine and unfamiliar vintage, what’s your basis for thinking it’s a reasonable price?

In all seriousness, if it’s Safeway, Trader Joe’s, Bevmo, Costco, etc. then there’s no shelf talker that would convince me to take a flyer on a wine to which I have no connections whatsoever. That kind of wine buying is IMO strictly for the masses and anyone here is several levels beyond that.

If it’s North Berkeley Imports, Wine Steward, etc. then I’m game to try something I’m unfamiliar with, but I’d talk to someone working at the store about any wine that piques my curiosity.

[Anton_D]

@Larry P

But… If it’s an unfamiliar wine and unfamiliar vintage, what’s your basis for thinking it’s a reasonable price?

Depends on which animal is on the label, 30 bucks or under.
Lucky for me, Two Buck Chuck is a known commodity! I have tried it, though. I mean the shelf talker said it won the California State Fair chardonnay contest with Best In Show!

“At the 28th Annual International Eastern Wine Competition, Shaw’s 2002 Shiraz received the double gold medal, beating approximately 2,300 other wines in the competition.” (Now, that is Shiraz, admittedly. A thousand moneys chained to a thousand wine presses could do that.)

"Shaw’s 2005 California Chardonnay was judged Best chardonnay from California at the Commercial Wine Competition of the 2007 California Exposition and State Fair. The chardonnay received 98 points, a double gold, with accolades of “Best of California” and “Best of Class”

What’s not to try?

In all seriousness, if it’s Safeway, Trader Joe’s, Bevmo, Costco, etc. then there’s no shelf talker that would convince me to take a flyer on a wine to which I have no connections whatsoever. That kind of wine buying is IMO strictly for the masses and anyone here is several levels beyond that.

You are 100% spot on.

If it’s North Berkeley Imports, Wine Steward, etc. then I’m game to try something I’m unfamiliar with, but I’d talk to someone working at the store about any wine that piques my curiosity.

Exactly! Have you tasted this and is it any good?

[lleichtman]

@Michael S. Monie

Anyone taking odds that the Suckling gets a goose egg for votes.

I’ll take 100:1 on that but, alas, he already got one vote.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Brian Tuite

@Neal.Mollen

@Brian G r a f s t r o m

It is blowing my mind that the worst option of all, imo, the CT average, is winning this. And it’s not even close … CT average is lapping everybody!

It’s pretty amazing, isn’t it?

CT reviewers don’t use those tough words like delineated, beams of tannins, graphite and salinity all for one wine.

I just want to be very clear: I think “CT average” is meaningless and useless. CT, on the whole, I find extremely valuable, most especially notes from those whom I’ve marked as a “favorite taster.”

[Neal.Mollen]

How do you decide to make “DoofusInAltoona” a “favorite taster?”

[Ian_Sutton]

@Neal.Mollen

How do you decide to make “DoofusInAltoona” a “favorite taster?”

The name. It shouts credibility, it shouts someone who should be on the Italian honours list, it shouts someone who could live in Tuscany and make a big deal of it, but they don’t and they’d like you to know that.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Ian Sutton

@Neal.Mollen

How do you decide to make “DoofusInAltoona” a “favorite taster?”

The name. It shouts credibility, it shouts someone who should be on the Italian honours list, it shouts someone who could live in Tuscany and make a big deal of it, but they don’t and they’d like you to know that.

Suckling’s roommate?

[P_Turk]

I voted other. For me, I really like the input from this forum. I’m a big zin fan, and was aware of Turley and Bedrock, but this board introduced me to Carlisle and Limerick Lane. Thanks!

[Scott_Brunson]

@Craig G

@Markus S

I’m surprised Suckling got a vote.

I’m not

Hedging your bet?

[Betty_C]

Another write-in for Wilfred Wong. Love a good Willie write-up!

[Craig_G]

@Betty C

Another write-in for Wilfred Wong. Love a good Willie write-up!

He never met a wine he wouldn’t sell.

[Ken_V]

@Craig G

@Markus S

I’m surprised Suckling got a vote.

I’m not

Bought and paid for! Chicago style.