White Rhones or White Bordeaux?

WINE TALK
1

What do you prefer - White Rhone or White Bordeaux?

  • White Rhone
  • White Bordeaux
  • Neither
  • Both
  • Northern White Rhones only
  • Southern White Rhones only
  • Brett Favre
  • Chuck Norris opens White Rhones with his teeth and White Bordeaux with his eye brows

0 voters

We had white Rhones last night at Mike Grammer on Tour in New York - Day #1. They are sooooo much better than white Bordeaux. I know it’s not the same grapes and I know Viognier north and Roussane/Marsanne south and all that, and I have never had Haut Brion Blanc (but I have had a well aged Ygrec that was quite good), but on a pure pleasure per ounce basis, I would go with the white Rhones. I even brought a Cayuse Viognier and it fit very nicely in with the others. It did not stand out as an over the top over extracted new world wine, by the way.

So what say you?

2

Each has their place. I don’t feel it’s a question of tastiness or not, just what food works better with each wine.

3

Well, for me that´s not the question … or “it depends”.

First: I do not suffer in having nothing white to drink [wow.gif] - we have so many fine white wines in Austria (Sauvignon blanc, Morillon (=Chardonnay), Pinot blanc and gris, Riesling, Grüner Veltliner etc.) - and I usually prefer them on a daily basis.
From France I drink quite often Burgundies (and no, I´m not that much afraid of Premox since my rate on this problem is very low, about 2%) … and I like them aged.

Coming to Bordeaux: Since a member of our monthly tasting group is a wine-maker and also heavily interested in (dry) white Bordeaux we have a yearly tasting of app. 16 Bx blanc, inluding HB and LMHB and all the other major producers - so I know them very well over at least 15 years.
IMHO there are only 6, 7 or 8 that are really very interesting, in addition to HB and LMHB (former Laville) there are only Pape-Clement, Domaine de Chevalier, Smith-Haut-Lafitte, Fieuzal (!), sometimes Malartic-Lagraviere, La Tour Martillac, Carbonnieux … and THE bargain, Clos Floridene … really consistantly outstanding wines … with now and then good efforts by Olivier, La Louviere … (and maybe some further 2 or 3)
I never was a fan auf Pavillon blanc … too often dusty almost like corked … and almost all white Bordeaux from regions outside Graves are rarely worth the money (Aile d´Argent, Cos blanc, Talbot blanc … Teyssier/Clos Nardian) or simply can be substituted by something cheaper (e.g. a fine Styrian Sauvignon blanc).

Rhone: I love a good Condrieu and Hermitage blanc, and there are a few fine white Chateauneufs. However for me these are not everyday white wines, I choose them only for special occasions. Moreover the producers of outstanding white Hermitage are very limited (Chave, Chapoutier, Sorrel … Jaboulet … ), they are usually pricy and you have to open it at the right age, but most white St.Josephs and Crozes are often quite uninteresting, and many white Chateauneufs simply lack the acidity we here in Austria are used to in white wines …

So when I have full choice I would - at the same price - either pick a white Burgundy, or an aged Rhone (Hermitage) … rarely a white Bordeaux, except it is at a budget price and a really interesting and valuable wine
(e.g. 1988 Fieuzal recently).

4

Jay - You tend to like full bodied wines, so this makes sense for you. A lot of white Bordeaux is higher in acidity and lower in alcohol than the Rhones.

5

Not a big fan of either category so my experience is rather limited and I haven’t tasted any of the very top names.

Don’t care much for Viognier, too aromatic for my taste, and generally prefer high acid and constrained ripeness in whites. That said, I’d much rather pick Rhone than Bordeaux. I’ve lost interest in the latter, don’t go crazy for either SB(and would choose other expressions) or Sem and have been repeatedly disappointed by intrusive non-resolved oak. The last example was a La Louviere '95 recently from 3L. Monolithic and boring wine really dominated by oak. The only white Bordeaux I’ve been enthusiastic about was a 90(?) R de Rieussec that I found several bottles of at close-out quite a few years ago. Nice honey tones with ok acidity and a beautiful waxy mouthfeel.

Without comparison the last white Rhone I had was a 2011 CdR from Charvin. Inexpensive and quite simple, not something I would search out, but quite fresh and no sense of high alcohol. My experiences with aged CdP have often been positive, though they’re low acid and far from my preferred style of white.

Then again, my favorite types of white are Riesling, particularly from the MSR; Loire CB, particularly from schist soils; and Muscadet a distant third. Sorry for trolling fans of Bordeaux or Rhone [wink.gif]

6

I’ve had good, and a few times even excellent bottles from both regions, but also bottles that were only so-so (a 2004 SHL blanc two weeks ago wasn’t flawed but was wan in the extreme); additionally, many of the better-known wines are very expensive, so I don’t actively seek out either of these categories. A good white Bordeaux might be handier for the kinds of food I eat than an equally good white Rhône, but a sensational bottle of either (1991 Chave, 1999 Pavillon Blanc, etc.) might not need any food at all to enjoy.

7

If white Bordeaux was cheaper, I’d be a buyer, but for my palate I’ve found better value in equivalent blends in the new world.

8

Ian,
I heavily recommend Clos Floridene … it should be available for around or less than 20 $ in retail and usually is everything a very good white Bordeaux should have.

9

Thanks Gerhard - I’ll keep an eye out for it

10

May we assume that Haut Brion is not on the table here?

Because I’ve been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to taste both HB Blanc and Chave Blanc [the very best of both regions?], and as Dookie Vitale would say, “That’s a great big No Contest baby!”

11

White Bordeaux because Sauternes.
/thread

12

Gerhard, thank you for your lengthy synopsis. What is your impression of Monbousquet blanc? I’ve had this before and found it an interesting Bordeaux blanc, perhaps due to them using a bit of sauvignon gris in the blend.

And I agree that catching white Rhones at the right time can be tricky.

13

We had 2 vintages (2010+11 if I remember correctly) … it was one of the best non-Graves wines (together with Clos Nardian) -
very full-bodied and quite prominently oaky, but non unbalanced … acidity was ok but not really very lively …
While I did like it, I wouldn´t be a buyer because for the same money I can get Fieuzal which I love … and also the aromatic palette was a bit unusual (perhaps due to the S.gris) … but I can understand people who love it … it had a slightly Southern Rhone element to it.

14

That’s because no such time exists. This is wine for laying down and avoiding.

15

[stirthepothal.gif] troublemaker.

I’m not going to include Sauternes, as otherwise it would be a no-brainer for me.

If and when you try HB-Blanc or Laville-HB, your view may change. I have had the HB Blanc once and it was one of my life-affirming wine experiences. I have had a few ordinary and disappointing Bordeaux Blanc as well but an equal or greater number of very good to great examples—ask the Boston crew about the 07 SHL e.g. But I really love Condrieu from a top producer (e.g. Gangloff, Vernay, Cuilleron, Villard), as well as the Chave whites which can be sublime when they’re on.

Mike

16

I’ve had the 82 HBB. It is an absolutely revelatory wine. I do think I should drink Bordeaux blanc more often…

On the other hand, marsanne and rousanne should be used only to make vin de paille. [stirthepothal.gif]

17

SAQ-Signatures Montreal still have some quite old vintage Lavillee HB in their inventory at reasonable prices.

18

I agree Clos Floridene is a more than solid QBR for white Bord in Quebec, Canada. 2010 were flying off their shelves very fast…


Merci…Gerhard [cheers.gif]

19

Both categories have some great wines, but there are so many poor ones, too high of prices, and such variability with aging and oxidation, that I pretty much look elsewhere now. I get the feeling I’m not the only one who feels that way – you don’t see these much at tastings, on shelves, or discussed here on WB.