Re hazelnut quality in wine: I think a certain amount of yeast autolysis is important as well.
I thought the picture of the Amity Pinot Noir Blanc. was funny. The color is certainly more pink than white.
In the 70s wines like this were often labelled with ‘the eye of the bird’ theme. Eye of the partridge ‘oeil de perdrix’ sometimes…eye of the eagle, the beagle, the buzzard etc. At that time there was no wine berserkers where people could say, I’ve seen a partridge and its eyes are much more red, so we will never know how accurate these descriptors were.
I think I’m going to give the wine Pinot Noir a try this year, but this comment makes me nervous. Is your assumption the wine isn’t a true white Pinot because of the hint of blush color?
For what it is worth, the one White Pinot Noir I had was about as dark as the rosé and could have been substituted based on appearance. But as I said, I didn’t see the point of making a White Pinot Noir and a Pinot Noir Rosé at the same winery. They simply were not that different in my opinion.
Do you think you have a good market for this wine? I wonder many people (including some on this board) have ever had a White Pinot or ever even heard of one outside of this thread? It seems decidedly geeky.
I’ve pressed a lot of red grapes for Rose and sparkling wine, and I’ve never seen them press as clear as white grapes. I’m assuming a lot of effort goes into dropping color in the white Pinot Noirs that don’t even have a hint of blush, but no one admits that in the winemaking notes that are public facing. It’s a lot more romantic to say they’re merely pressed lightly. I’m open to making additions to drop color, but often times those additives strip color and flavor. I’d hate to have to make a decision of whether to strip color so it’s a true white Pinot Noir and compromise flavor…or vice versa. Last thing I want to do is release a rose and call it a white Pinot Noir. On the other hand, I also don’t want to release a white Pinot Noir that’s muted because all of the falvor has been stripped out. I guess that’s why the Domaine Serene ages their white Pinot in barrel, on lees, for 18 months. Just sort of thinking out loud here…
This is exactly right. The rose and the white Pinot Noir should be distinctive and different. I think most roses are stainless steel fermented/aged and released young. I’m toying with the idea of barrel fermenting the white Pinot Noir and then aging it for 12 months on lees. Treating a white Pinot Noir as though it’s a traditional Pinot Noir, in a sense, rather than a rose. This thread has been incredibly helpful and sparked a ton of research – so thank you so much for commenting.
Elise,
I haven’t had much to so with sparkling wine, production wise, but I did enjoy a Bollinger 02 last night. It is made from mostly pinot noir and was white. They say they press right away but the Champenois can be as secretive as
any company in Silicon Valley.
Will you be making this white Pinot Noir as an academic experience? It seems like it. Which is totally cool but doesn’t necessarily entice me as a customer (wine drinker).
Or are you making a white pinot noir because you think this is the best wine you can make out of these grapes? Which is both cool and makes me want to buy this!
Hey Elise, as pointed out by TGigante, I have been making a white Pinot since 2020. A last minute smoke vintage decision which I thought it would be a one-off, but I like it a lot, it’s been popular and we sell out at a 12-18 mo clip upon release. It stands as a contrast to Chardonnay in our lineup because it is picked early for a bright style (less body and mouthfeel than a Chard), lots of green apple and citrus notes, white flowers, and minerality. We do not pick as early as a classic blanc de noir for sparkling – we are usually picking 7 to 12 days earlier than for red based on juice flavor, TAs close between 8 and 9, 3.1pH, etc.). The big issue I have with rose’ is that the retail market is not receptive to older vintages and there is enormous pressure to sell it quickly, which is regrettable. (I’m a big fan of Marsannay rose’ and wish our retail folks would allow the same latitude – these wines can age just fine.) I have no issues with presenting a 22 white Pinot in 24 or 25 for example, and it also can carry a higher price point than rose’
In terms of elevage, I will separate the cuvee into two stainless tanks, one for MLF. But this strategy can vary depending on the vintage profile. I learned this from Elton Wine Co/Crew Work in So. Oregon – their white Pinot being a favorite and an inspiration.
As for color, champagne cycle on the press, no tumbling, and I cut it off early with the last third going to tumbling/cyles added to whole cluster red PN ferments (for early ripening clones to help with Taste/pH on those wines). I also use a thicker skinned clone, Wadensvil. But yeah, a very small amount of carbon at the juice stage helps (I am at 1/4th of the recommended g/hL) and the rest will drop out during elevage (I will leave the tanks outside in January for cold settling and the tartaric crystals pull color). We have a slight salmon color in the end. I would agree that adjusting for color post-MLF would definitely affect flavor and texture.
I just finished off a Franny Beck White Pinot, 2017. It was spectacular. I think pinot can make a very good white, rose, or red with the right vintner.
We’re in the southern end of the Napa Valley, with a strong maritime influence. I make excellent sparkling wine from this site (both Pét Nat and Méthode Champenoise) and a rose too (I’ve made both saignee and direct press) so I have no doubt an exceptional white Pinot Noir can be produced from this site as well. That said, I’ve never made a white Pinot Noir, so this will be an academic experience for me as well. I really won’t know if this is the best wine I can make from these grapes until I embark on this journey and try. Check back in with me in about 20 months lol.
This is super interesting. What effect are you aiming to achieve blending the MLF & non-MLF lot?. Is it usually a 50/50 split?
I’m looking forward to trying your white Pinot Noir and I reached out to Elkton Wine Co. to grab a bottle of theirs as well. I really appreciate all of the info on your white Pinot Noir winemaking - this is so helpful, thank you so much.
It’s entirely based on taste. In 2022 the juice came in under 3 pH and to my taste (after AF) I definitely felt it would benefit from MLF to soften the wine. In 23 it was at 3.1 and I thought 50/50% would be nice.
@DougS is on to something here – I think a very early pick in true blanc de noir/sparkling style would see firmer skins and less color bleed.