What are your thoughts on white Pinot Noirs? I’m a Pinot Noir grower in the south end of the Napa Valley, and we’re starting to make plans for harvest 2024. My Dad is interested in making a bit of white Pinot Noir this year, but I have my reservations…mostly due to the fact that I’ve only tried one. It was ok, but lacked a lot of the complexity that interests me in a classic Pinot Noir. I’ve been reading up on the method, and it looks like most people pick their fruit slightly under-ripe so it has more acidity and is lighter in body. It also looks like they’re intended to be drank young. I’ve heard good things about the Scribe White Pinot Noir, but I’ve never tried it (it’s always sold out).
From a winemaking standpoint, it sounds a lot like a rose. In fact, it sounds exactly like a rose LOL. But, I’m a bit perplexed on how white Pinot Noirs lack any hint of color…I’ve been making a rose from Pinot Noir for years, and I press the fruit lightly, but it always has a bit of a blush color. Are white Pinot Noirs watered down? Are they bleached? Or do I just have a heavy hand on the press?
Are white Pinot Noirs a niche wine here to stay or is this a fad?
Looking for wine drinker opinions and any winemaking methods winemakers are using to achieve the white Pinot Noir.
Cheers,
-Elise
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I have only had one from an Oregon producer who ALSO made a rosé. I liked the rosé better and really didn’t see the point of the white PN. The winemaker also made a red/white Pinot Noir Blend one year which I think was a bit of a Hail Mary after he didn’t like how the white PN turned out. To your question, there are already a lot of rosés. White Pinot Noir is a niche fad.
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Lichen up in Anderson Valley makes both a white wine from Pinot and a wonderful wine made with Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris that I can’t get enough of. Les Noirs et Gris IIRC. But they do pick the noir early and the Gris at normal time so it gets the richness on the palate of the Gris and the zingy acid and red fruit from the noir. Got any Gris to add???
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Thanks for the insight, Chris. I appreciate it. Do you recall the pricepoint? I wonder if it’s priced higher or lower than a rose. I assume it was priced lower than the red wine expression of Pinot Noir.
Thanks Dan, a blend sounds like a great idea! I hadn’t thought of that. I’ll checkout Lichen and see if I can get my hands on one of those bottles. Might make sense for me to open a bottle of my 2023 Pinot Noir Rose and blend it with some other varietals to see what tastes good. File under: extremely fun research, haha!
Tolenas at the southern end of Suisun Valley (just up the 12) makes a pretty solid one, “Eclipse”. IIRC tasted more like a normal Pinot than a Rose and more “refreshing and crisp” than a typical Pinot.
It might be a good way to make a more refreshing/straightforward/daily drinker Pinot to contrast with a regular red “estate” Pinot.
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The Tolenas white Pinot Noir is the white Pinot I’ve had! It’s interesting because the Tolenas is 100% Pinot Noir vs. the Lichen Les Noirs et Gris @Dan_Sch mentioned, which is a blend of Pinot Gris and Pinot Noir. I wonder if most white Pinot Noirs are 100% varietal specific or a blend. I suppose it’s just a stylistic choice like most other wines.
White Pinot Noir does seem to be having a moment recently, especially in Anderson Valley. In addition to the Lichen Dan mentioned there are several other producers there who’ve done it.
On the color, expect low juice yields to avoid too much skin extraction. Depending on how much you are planning to make you could load the press, take a very light press cut and use that for the white, and then dump some or all of the rest of the fruit into a larger tank for a red ferment, almost like doing a pre-saignée. If the dying yeast don’t pull out all the residual color and SO2 bleaching doesn’t get you the rest of the way you can fine with carbon or maybe PVPP.
If you ferment cold in stainless you can get something quite pretty, but barrel fermentation can give nice results too.
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I would generally think the pricing would be lower for a white Pinot. But because you want lower ripeness it could be a good solution for some second crop or virused vines or otherwise where getting above 21-22 Brix is too much of an ask but the flavor development is decent.
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I like white Pinot Noirs. I have had them from Oregon and Champagne, as Coteaux champenois (still wine). The most recent was Marie Courtin Blanc de Tremble, and that’s an amazing bottling. Outside of Champagne, I would expect to pay less for a still white PN compared to a red PN.
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Gouges and several others in burgundy make wines from, as I understand it, Pinot noir vines that underwent a mutation to produce white grapes. I assume this is NOT what we’re talking about?
Well, that is Pinot Blanc you’re talking about.
Pinot Blanc is the white mutation of Pinot Noir. Pinot Gouges is one of the many clones of Pinot Blanc.
White Pinot is white wine made from Pinot Noir. I like it when it is made into sparkling wine, but otherwise don’t really see the point. IMO red varieties rarely make interesting still whites.
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Indeed, an excellent and quite distinctive wine.
It’s an incredible blind tasting stunt, but it’s really a very worthy wine just in its own right too.
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The only (still) Blanc de Noir that I’ve had is by Exultet in Prince Edward County. Very good, has a tropical element.
I’ve had 2 from Oregon I liked. One from Willkenzie about u years ago and the curretn Anne Amie release. Minerality, some structure, and acidity with balance fruit. Great stuff.
I’d love to order a few bottles from these recommended producers, but I can’t seem to find anything in-stock…inability to purchase has pattern with the white Pinot Noirs! Seems like they’re either produced in tiny quantities or they’re more popular than I’d assumed. Can anyone link me to a shop where I can purchase a white Pinot Noir? I’ve already had the Tolenas, but would love to pick up a few other producers.
Richard Sanford introduced the idea of making a vin gris from pinot noir when the clones of pinot were anemic in terms of color. The idea was to increase the skins to juice ratio and to make a wine that could be sold right away.
Qupe and Au Bon Climat made very good vin gris in their early days. They were barrel fermenting the vin gris in older barrels and the results were excellent, a wine enjoyable on its own or with a wide variety of cuisine.,
Of course, the bean counters in their brains said, these wines that sell for X are taking up space that could be used for making wines that cost 2X. The clones got better and people stopped making vin gris, or blanc de noir, wines.
As pointed out elsewhere, Champagne is made from red grape varieties–along with whtie grapes-- that are pressed quickly so as not to color the wine.
Of course,e verything comes down to marketing. Where in South Napa is the vineyard??
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