Can you imagine how potentially awesome it would be if Janasse didn’t use any new oak for the Vieilles Vignes cuvée and picked it just a bit less ripe??
Probably the “best” Grenache I’ve ever tasted that seemed capable of absorbing the new oak was one from SQN…even then, just no.
Yeah, that one is an egregious offender. I’m also normally a huge Charbonniere fan, but they do one small oaked cuvee that makes me want to cry.
The other thing is that I think the oak shows more with age, rather than less.
I do agree on SQN, though I can’t think of a single instance where I would have preferred it over the same vintage’s Syrah.
Jim, that’s really interesting on oak showing more with age as opposed to becoming more absorbed as most conventional wisdom would seem to indicate…will definitely keep that in mind going forward.
Totally agreed on Syrah from SQN always being better than the Grenache. I’ve only had a few vintages of each but that’s always been my impression too. I’ll also add that the whites from SQN would be way better with less oak imo.
Yes, this is a nice summation of what I am curious about. There are lots of varietals that can take or even profit from a little oak or more, depending on vintage, terroir, winemaker, etc. And in my experience, I don’t think I like any level of oak on Syrah.
I know this to be true from many wines I’ve enjoyed (at least for some varietals), but then you could ask why use oak in the first place? I suppose the oak adds components that aren’t obvious as oak.
Oak imparts different types of characteristics on wine. Some integrate, some dissipate, some just sit there while other characteristics mellow. The latter are then relatively more prominent. Something moderately repulsive, like caramel, might be encompassed in big fruit and countered by tannin in a young wine, and exposed and vomit-inducing in a mature wine.
For me the worst reds:
Nebbiolo and Grenache
I think Cabernet Sauvignon handles oak the best. I would agree that Barbera can handle it as well, but for me I prefer Barbera without any small wood.
For me the least bad whites: Chardonnay or Semillon
It affects style, and certainly can add things. Oak can also help resolve tannin.
I did a Cab from a good foothills site for a few years in neutral oak, then the sort of necessary choice was a new half barrel. That’s more surface-to-juice ratio than a regular barrel. It was my favorite barrel for SCM Cab, but I expected it to be too much. Nope. Much better than the previous vintages.
Savory, roasty and toasty can be good. Vanillin and caramel not so much. This is wine, not Starbucks.
The slow ingress of oxygen helps resolve tannins. New oak actually adds tannins.
This begs the question: “What question does this beg?”
We sell a lot of puncheons for grenache. People ask for more.
Petite Sirah gets too much new oak! It’s tannic enough and should be aged in neutral oak to let its flavor profile shine%
Yeah, I think I mis-read the OP a little. I read the last sentence and thought that it was about which wines would retain their character despite new oak. I don’t mind solicitous use of new oak on chardonnay. If it’s about what varietal doesn’t mix well with new oak, it has to be riesling (as mentioned earlier).
I haven’t seen this mentioned yet, but Sauvignon Blanc. That said, I really wanted to not like the Merry Edwards Sauvignon Blanc the first time I tasted it, and yet I found it compelling enough that I’d have it again, were someone else buying.
I can’t tell if I’m getting increasingly ‘new oak-averse’, or if certain producers have changed their style, but I’ve found off-putting levels in all three of my favorite producers recently. But I really prefer no overt oak in all of my wines.
It can be done very well. Some Napa producers make great ones, if you don’t mind paying $80-120 for a bottle of SB. Think perfectly tended great site, just the right ripeness with only a little gooseberry, a savory oak with absolutely no obnoxious garbage, etc. Oddly, like almost everything you’d want from a traditionally ripe Cab, and somehow executed better than their Cabs (for the most part, in my experience).