which syrahs are retirement worthy?

[Markus_S]

Buy a large assortment of Cornas, Hermitage, Cote Rotie, and some Saint Joe’s, and you’ll be sitting pretty in syrah retirement heaven!

[GregT]

I would drop them all. They’re overpriced for what you get. I’ve had and/or have all and didn’t and wouldn’t pay the full retail price for any of them. And unfortunately, so is much of the Syrah from the Northern Rhone these days.

That said, Syrah is one of the most interesting grapes in CA these days because there are so many styles to choose from.

Myriad and Bedrock will be closer to what you’re drinking, if that’s the style you like. They’re not like N. Rhone in the least, so before you go out and start buying expensive things from the N. Rhone, try a few. And the price differentials are like here - not necessarily worth the extra in all cases.

And while the good folks on this board tend to stick with CA and France, you don’t need to do that. There’s really good Syrah made all over the world these days - South Africa, Chile, Australia, Spain, Hungary, Austria, also Washington State as you know since you’re buying Cayuse.

[markjchambers]

More helpful comments.

1. I just passed on the Next of Kyn offer. I’ll keep SQN, but I don’t need NOK. Not sure about the Third Twin.
2. I will t try ordering less Saxum. I do enjoy Rocket Block and G2 even neither contains any syrah.
3. I do get Carlisle syrahs. Carlisle is the best. I take what I want and and I ask for more of this or that and I usually get it. My problem is that I can’t keep my hands off them and they too early. They need time and I haven’t waited long enough.
4. I had not heard of Myriad, but they seem Bevan-like. I’m a big fan of Bevan Moaveni syrah. $75 isn’t value pricing, but it’s not $100 either. The Sonoma syrahs I’ve run into seem to be like the Pinots - big fruit with the best having a serious backbone.
5. I’ll look for some northern Rhone’s and search for the threads that were mentioned. People say Cayuse has a northern Rhone vibe and I’m certainly into Cayuse.

[Robert.A.Jr]

And while the good folks on this board tend to stick with CA and France, you don’t need to do that. There’s really good Syrah made all over the world these days - South Africa, Chile, Australia, Spain, Hungary, Austria, also Washington State as you know since you’re buying Cayuse.

That’s not been my personal experience. At least for me, syrah is best from France, and secondarily, from some California winemakers and vineyards. The rest are few and far between for me.

[NoahR]

My experience here jibes with Alfert’s as usual - haven’t had compelling Syrah that wasn’t from France or US.

And honestly, there is not a US cab that hits the savory, feral notes of Northern Rhône, even if some of the better examples have all the white pepper and violets and even some of the meat tones.

Have had 5 or 6 iterations of Bionic Frog and never would I have associated it with a Northern Rhône vibe. I would sample the Northern Rhône to get a real sense of what Syrah is capable of. You may or may not dig it.

[T.Phillips]

I’ll toss in Arcadian syrahs. Joe Davis makes some good juice

[Robert_M_yers]

Mark,
Congrats on making some first steps to downsize, they are hard choices but gets easier once you start to figure out the ones you truly cherish.

As confirmed above, yes you can drop any Cayuse wine you don’t want without worry about losing others. Once your in a wine your in permanently. Dropping has never affected my add requests as far as I can tell either.

We are making a leap here that you may like some N Rhône wines, but it’s worth a Small investment now to find out. And since you’ve been drinking lots of Syrah, you really should find out now! Buy a 15/16 Vincent Paris 30/60 and see if it scratches your Syrah itch. If it does, you’ve just opened up a whole world of reasonably priced wines. Of course You can chase the whales in Rhône too if you want, but it isn’t necessary to experience what the region has to offer.

Although they aren’t my style any longer, I do also like the recommendation of K Vintners if your looking for a less expensive domestic replacement. Smith makes great wines in the style and they are reasonably priced too.

Noah, just curious…you don’t get a Cayuse funk that at least says this isn’t your normal US Syrah? It so unmistakable to me I always find it fascinating when people say they don’t notice it? I’m not saying it’s a ringer, but I’ve had lots of N Rhône with less earth/funk or whatever than Cayuse.

[NoahR]

Robert - it’s not the funk. I agree that Bionic Frog can have a little of that. And there are certainly some tastings of young syrahs described here where people couldnt reliably differentiate between US and Rhône, so I certainly won’t say They’re two completely different animals. But they’re made differently in different climates.

I think you can make something that tastes Rhoney in California when it’s young by picking early and accentuating acidity and lean, savory, vegetal flavors, but if you actually pick at phenolic ripeness in California or Washington, you’re going to end up with a higher octane, fuller bodied, fruitier wine than you will ever get on the slopes of the Rhône.

I would also argue that you could compare village Burgundy to similarly priced US Pinot noir and, unless you’re talking a super-ripe vintage like 2009/2003/2015, you’d be able to pick the Burg out of the lineup.

[Diane_Kessler]

I may have missed it, but I didn’t see any mention of Lagier Meredith. Reasonably priced, and they age beautifully. I mainly drink Northern Rhone Syrah, but also enjoy Lagier Meredith.

[Kris_Patten]

Excellent recommendation Diane, big +1
.

[Kirk.Grant]

I have long been a new world syrah lover and over the years I have managed to get on what I consider to be the primo lists. But retirement is upon me and I really can’t afford to buy all of the wine I’m being offered. I should cut back by about half. So who stays and who goes?

Alban - my first great syrah experience. Love him and love the wines. My first Reva was a 1998 purchased for $38. Now Reva is ~$100. Seymour’s and Lorraine are ~$160. That much better than Reva? But really, Patrina is pretty good - half the price of Reva and not hard to find.

Cayuse - at least they don’t over load you with wine. For the longest time I only got 3 bottles a year. Now I’m up to 6, but the second 3-pack was God Only Knows - not what I was looking for. I was thinking about dropping, then they granted me the Frog. Still, just 9 bottles a year. And at a reasonable cost. I did opt not to go for Horsepower or Hors Categorie because of the higher cost, but I wonder if these are now Christoph’s true love.

Saxum - found them at Hospice du Rhone in 2006. So I got the great 2007 vintage. They have held their price at ~$100 for a long time, but not many vintages have been as good as the 2007s. Two and half cases a year is ~$3000.

SQN - I waited a long time to get on the list and I have sucked up everything I could since. The prices haven’t gone up that much, especially when you compare them Napa cabs (is that valid?), but I get offered a lot and I feel like I have to take it all. Unlike Cayuse, I went for every secondary offering. I couldn’t get Chimere, but I did finally get Next of Kyn and snagged some Third Twin. The total yearly tab just for the SQN family is approaching $10K.

One solution is to just buy less, but I think it is likely that most of these places will drop me if I don’t take my full allocation. I share my allocations when I can find a friend who is interested. I could flip some, but I really don’t want to buy wine for that purpose and few of these are really flippable, By the time you pay the auction fees, most are break even or worse.

Mark,

Of these I used to buy Cayuse, and still buy SQN. I’ll echo what others have said. Diversify your buying a little more. These are all similar in style and I believe you’ll hit a place one day where you like a different style. It would be a shame if in another 5-7 years you suddenly realize these aren’t the style of Syrah that you like. If it were me, I’d cut out the producer that you have the most of their wines and then use that money to buy a different style of Syrah. As others have suggested maybe look to the Northern Rhone while they’re still affordable. Producers that it seems you might enjoy may be Alain Voge in Cornas, Rene Rostaing in Cote Rotie, & M. Chapoutier in Hermitage.

[R_Roberts]

Hi Mark, leave it to this board to spin your question about what to drop with unrequested answers on what to replace it with!

I don’t know your palate or your financial situation, but it sounds to me like a big part of your struggle is fear of missing out. There are several threads here (and I can speak from first hand experience) how liberating it is to drop or severely cut back on producers that either require continuous purchases and/or dominate your cellar. Chances are you won’t look back.

[Arv_R]

If retirement is on the brink, think about not just downsizing your incoming wine purchases, but your existing cellar. It’s a lot easier to part ways with chattels while one can make the choices themselves, rather than having others do it for you. Also if there’s a chance your living arrangements will eventually change, having right sized the cellar ahead of time makes it easier to make that transition. Perhaps a few Eurocaves can handle your needs rather than a basement or a separate room.

It so easy nowadays to buy wine that even if you do end up wanting a certain bottle for an event / occasion you can almost always find it. The few wines you suspect you won’t be able to find later are the ones that merit continued purchase/storage.

[Blake_Brown]

So many great options already mentioned - but a few more in my neck of the woods to consider:

Ojai Vineyards
Jaffurs
Samsara
Stolpman

Good luck! And next time you are heading to Paso, consider detouring to Santa Barbara County instead!

Cheers.

+1 on Jaffurs and a big vote for Qupe under Bob Lindquist`s ownership.

BTW, Bob is selling off a huge inventory of his wines at 50% off and more for vintages from 96- 14next Saturday. For those interested, you can opt for a pdf to be sent to you via email and can buy without having to be at the winery although that promises to be a big and fun party with numerous library wines opened as well. If interested, call them for info: 805-937-9801

[Yao_C]

We are making a leap here that you may like some N Rhône wines, but it’s worth a Small investment now to find out. And since you’ve been drinking lots of Syrah, you really should find out now! Buy a 15/16 Vincent Paris 30/60 and see if it scratches your Syrah itch. If it does, you’ve just opened up a whole world of reasonably priced wines. Of course You can chase the whales in Rhône too if you want, but it isn’t necessary to experience what the region has to offer.

3rding this; it’s worth trying Vincent Paris 30 and not hard to get your hands on it. Faury St Joseph VV, Rousset Picaudieres and Pierres Seches Sainte Epine (all N Rhone) are also worth a shot

[Anton_D]

I have long been a new world syrah lover and over the years I have managed to get on what I consider to be the primo lists. But retirement is upon me and I really can’t afford to buy all of the wine I’m being offered. I should cut back by about half. So who stays and who goes?

Alban - my first great syrah experience. Love him and love the wines. My first Reva was a 1998 purchased for $38. Now Reva is ~$100. Seymour’s and Lorraine are ~$160. That much better than Reva? But really, Patrina is pretty good - half the price of Reva and not hard to find.

Cayuse - at least they don’t over load you with wine. For the longest time I only got 3 bottles a year. Now I’m up to 6, but the second 3-pack was God Only Knows - not what I was looking for. I was thinking about dropping, then they granted me the Frog. Still, just 9 bottles a year. And at a reasonable cost. I did opt not to go for Horsepower or Hors Categorie because of the higher cost, but I wonder if these are now Christoph’s true love.

Saxum - found them at Hospice du Rhone in 2006. So I got the great 2007 vintage. They have held their price at ~$100 for a long time, but not many vintages have been as good as the 2007s. Two and half cases a year is ~$3000.

SQN - I waited a long time to get on the list and I have sucked up everything I could since. The prices haven’t gone up that much, especially when you compare them Napa cabs (is that valid?), but I get offered a lot and I feel like I have to take it all. Unlike Cayuse, I went for every secondary offering. I couldn’t get Chimere, but I did finally get Next of Kyn and snagged some Third Twin. The total yearly tab just for the SQN family is approaching $10K.

One solution is to just buy less, but I think it is likely that most of these places will drop me if I don’t take my full allocation. I share my allocations when I can find a friend who is interested. I could flip some, but I really don’t want to buy wine for that purpose and few of these are really flippable, By the time you pay the auction fees, most are break even or worse.

Difficulty letting go is really something I relate to.

What helped me was picking the first one to drop, then it suddenly became cathartic!

One exception: Keep the SQN and sell them to fellow wine lovers on Commerce Corner with no mark up. That will bring you joy, as well.

[Sc0tt_F_tzgerald]

Myriad and Bedrock will definitely be I. Your wheelhouse. I think you would find Copain and Pax too lean but hard to say.

What ^^ he ^^ said.

I’ll ‘third’ that. Just went to check past tasting notes on Myriad and Bedrock - great syrahs at good prices.

[Markus_S]

And while the good folks on this board tend to stick with CA and France, you don’t need to do that. There’s really good Syrah made all over the world these days - South Africa, Chile, Australia, Spain, Hungary, Austria, also Washington State as you know since you’re buying Cayuse.

That’s not been my personal experience. At least for me, syrah is best from France, and secondarily, from some California winemakers and vineyards. The rest are few and far between for me.

Decent syrah from South Africa for those who look.

[Howard_Cooper]

I have long been a new world syrah lover and over the years I have managed to get on what I consider to be the primo lists. But retirement is upon me and I really can’t afford to buy all of the wine I’m being offered. I should cut back by about half. So who stays and who goes?

Alban - my first great syrah experience. Love him and love the wines. My first Reva was a 1998 purchased for $38. Now Reva is ~$100. Seymour’s and Lorraine are ~$160. That much better than Reva? But really, Patrina is pretty good - half the price of Reva and not hard to find.

Cayuse - at least they don’t over load you with wine. For the longest time I only got 3 bottles a year. Now I’m up to 6, but the second 3-pack was God Only Knows - not what I was looking for. I was thinking about dropping, then they granted me the Frog. Still, just 9 bottles a year. And at a reasonable cost. I did opt not to go for Horsepower or Hors Categorie because of the higher cost, but I wonder if these are now Christoph’s true love.

Saxum - found them at Hospice du Rhone in 2006. So I got the great 2007 vintage. They have held their price at ~$100 for a long time, but not many vintages have been as good as the 2007s. Two and half cases a year is ~$3000.

SQN - I waited a long time to get on the list and I have sucked up everything I could since. The prices haven’t gone up that much, especially when you compare them Napa cabs (is that valid?), but I get offered a lot and I feel like I have to take it all. Unlike Cayuse, I went for every secondary offering. I couldn’t get Chimere, but I did finally get Next of Kyn and snagged some Third Twin. The total yearly tab just for the SQN family is approaching $10K.

One solution is to just buy less, but I think it is likely that most of these places will drop me if I don’t take my full allocation. I share my allocations when I can find a friend who is interested. I could flip some, but I really don’t want to buy wine for that purpose and few of these are really flippable, By the time you pay the auction fees, most are break even or worse.

Are you aging the wines or drinking them young. If you drink them young, which ones get drunk up and which wines do you never quite get to? Continue to buy the ones you drink up and drop the ones you never quite get to.

If you buy them to age, which ones age best - your opinion is the only one that counts. Continue to Buy those.

[GregT]

And while the good folks on this board tend to stick with CA and France, you don’t need to do that. There’s really good Syrah made all over the world these days - South Africa, Chile, Australia, Spain, Hungary, Austria, also Washington State as you know since you’re buying Cayuse.

That’s not been my personal experience. At least for me, syrah is best from France, and secondarily, from some California winemakers and vineyards. The rest are few and far between for me.

Decent syrah from South Africa for those who look.

Yep. Might try Leeuwenkil, Sijnn, maybe Reyneke, if you like some spice and meaty notes. From Chile you can try Ventisquero, which is a good but slightly new-world style, or look for some wines from the Elqui valley - some are on the cost just like in Sonoma and the profiles are similar. You won’t likely find these too easily, but Attila Németh in Hungary made a delicious and inexpensive Syrah, and Laszlo Bulkoyi made an outstanding one.

The fact that Syrah is planted widely gives us a wonderful opportunity to see how it can vary from place to place. It is really a grape that reflects its terroir and wine making so much more than something like Pinot Noir or Cab, so I would encourage tasting as many as possible.