Are they worth the hype?
The current trends sure are on sec’s though. That said then i do love Huet’s sweetish wines 
. On my last out of six 2007 Le Mont Demi-Sec’s. Great wine.
Are they?
Brad is a regular here and drinks aged Huet like it’s water. 
Without knowing your age i guess you are a lot older than me and have a different angle on wine. I don’t think a wines ability to age is a quality in itself, only if it vastly improves. And then it becomes very subjective. As i stated before then I prefer wines on the younger side where the tertiary notes are less dominant and it still feels very fresh and true to grape variety, and then again it becomes very subjective. I have preferred the ten year old Huet’s (sec) i had to the twenty year olds. I would be surprised if it suddenly turned around at 30+ for my taste.
I also wonder how many of the wines mentioned you have actually tasted? If they can age as long? Probably not. A lot of them are made with lower amounts of sulfites than Huet, but for me some of them also has greater tension than i have found in Huet.
We will probably never agree on wine. But i do find it interesting to get opinions from other people. And i would love to taste a 50 year old Huet.
Plus 1
Huet was probably my first great love in Vouvray, and Chenin Blanc in general, but I don’t see them as head and shoulders above a number of other producers listed here, especially the Bourdignon wines(for my palate).
I also haven’t had the same type of youthful electric bottles from Huet in quite a while(roughly a decade) that I feel these wines had prior to that. I don’t think they are lesser wines than most of what is listed, but if cost wasn’t a part of the equation I would choose Rougeard’s Breze or the Bourdignon Clos de la Hutte every time.
In your opinion…
This.
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This.
And I started with Huet.
I prefer a crisper style.
Shhh…nothing to see here…I was wondering how long it would take.
I think the highs of at least 3 producers are much higher than Huet…Perhaps more. I’ve drank Huet for a couple of decades, they age gracefully, but…so what?
While I agree there are many wines that are perhaps peers to the Huet sec wines(for me, Roches Neuves), Are their any wines that can reach the heights of the Sweet Huet wines, especially Premiere Trie? I’ve only seen a small handful of sweet wines (and I think zero white wines) awarded 100 points by John Gilman, but he gave it to both the ‘45 and ‘47 Haut Lieu 1er Trie. That puts them in the rarified company of the 1945 Yquem, 1959 Prüm Wehlener Sonnenuhr TBA, and 2002 Dönnhoff Oberhauser Brücke Eiswein.
Just to stick with Loire, Foreau ‘ Naudine’ .
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I’d contend that ranked classifications are typically more than just a survey of recent performance or the impact of a winemaker with barely more than a decade at the helm, and that historic achievement and terroir play an important role. That’s why Joly’s wines still have cachet despite the relatively poor performance of the estate under his watch (with reasonable improvement in recent years thanks to his daughter actually caring more about the results than the process). Having said that, the wine-making philosophy of Huet’s owners (which triggered Pinguet retiring) certainly hasn’t helped the Domaine excel over the past decade. Finally, I’d say that evaluations like this that focus primarily on the dry expressions as what dictates "greatness’ falls well short of enlightenment for wines like Riesling and Chenin that can literally run the gamut from sparkling through dry, off-dry, all the way to full-on dessert sweet.
PS - Rougeard Breze is ok, but I’m not a particular fan of the oak treatment and don’t really pursue the wine as a result, although I have a fair amount of the various rouges.
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Well stated. Though I am not sure where we decided this was an evaluation based upon dry wines?
I personally feel that sweet wines are somewhat analagous to movies with CG effects vs dry wines being movies without them. But there’s very little doubt that the great sweet wines of the world are indeed great wines. In my cellar I have a bottle of 1995 Cuvee Constance for my 70th. But, in my opinion, the extravagant flavors of sweet wines shouldn’t be given more weight than great dry expressions of Chenin, which in my opinion are harder to produce. Though both styles produce great wines.
And if this is vineyard based then it would be unfair to weight the classification based upon the quality of being sweet or dry as some vineyards lend themselves to botrytis and some do not.
I agree with you that classifications should take historical context into account, and your assessment of Coulee de Serrant is apt. It is a Grand Cru vineyard, and the wines I have had from pre-Nicholas Joly were like lightning in a bottle(and to be fair this probably made them hard to sell when they were young).
With that, I would view Clos du Bourg as the great Huet vineyard, and I would look at the property as one performaing as a second tier with the potential to be higher, based upon history.
And I would argue that it’s placement in the super-first tier is due more to it’s beloved place in most of our hearts. I’ve no wish to see Huet anywhere but the first tier for that very reason, but the wines currently, in my opinion, have not been on a par with some of the others in this list.
Your comments on the new owners are fair, but if we keep them in a place of high status do they have any motivation to change things?
To the Breze, I also do not care for Lopez de Heredia’s oak treatment on their reserve whites…until it’s aged sufficiently and then it is magnificent.
That said, I appreciate your post. Food for thought.
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It’s a good post Jim. I do think it is difficult to actually compare dry styles to styles made with a certain amount of residual sugar. It is almost like comparing red to whites for me. Most of the producers i have mentioned here does not make sweet wines or does not really focus on sweet wines. So does that classify them in lower tiers? Even if the style they focus on is better than domaines with a broader portfolio?
I also don’t put as much emphasis on history as you do probably. If you have not delivered for a decade or so or new names have bettered you, then you are not top tier anymore. Just like in sports.
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Firstly, thank you Yule (I hope I’m right in thinking that this is your first name?!) for taking the trouble to start this thread. It’s an excellent idea. It’s also a lot more complicated than the red wine thread which is almost entirely about Cabernet Franc wines! I think you’re absolutely right to choose a vineyard/plot classification rather than a producer one.
I drink Loire whites almost on a daily basis, because they are such good value and because I love the style, but most of mine are entry level so not relevant here. These are just some ideas:
Chenin
There is a new wave of producers that I’m really getting into, who make their wines in a very crisp, fresh style, mostly in the Anjou appellation. I suppose that Thibaud Boudignon has been the trailblazer, but these are for me at the same level of quality, mostly at cheaper prices:
Château de Plaisance - bought by a young vigneronne called Vanessa Cherruau two years ago, who makes mostly dry wines where in the past the wines were Quarts de Chaume. I haven’t tried all of them yet, but my favourite so far is the Savennières. The wines are very precise and chiseled, but slightly softer than Arnaud Lambert’s, for example.
Domaine Belargus - along the same lines, this comprises vineyards previously owned by Jo Pithon who I think is still consulting, along with Guy Bossard. I have only tried the dry whites, which I have found to be sensational, on a higher level than those of Plaisance (and a lot more expensive). I don’t really have a favourite yet.
Bertin-Delatte - bottled as VDFs, the one I just prefer is the Vingt-Neuf cuvée, which is semi-sweet, a beguiling blend of white peach and apricot with very crisp lemon and pear flavours on the finish.
Domaine de La Renière - Saumur - I had an excellent La Cérisaie recently, again more apple and pear than honey, really good value at 16€.
La Grange Tiphaine - Montlouis - I really enjoyed Les Epinays 2017, but I’m slightly concerned by the high ABVs of the more recent vintages.
All of these would merit being somewhere in the list, but I have no idea where - I haven’t had enough yet to be certain. Also, the first two are recent creations so it is too early to say how they will age (and whether the standards will be maintained in subsequent vintages).
Domaine Champalou - Vouvray - this one I do know well. I have been buying their wines since the mid-90s. I wouldn’t say they are quite at the same level as Huet, Chidaine or Blot, but their wines are excellent nonetheless and better value. The style has always been softer - “tendre” - and I think the best is Les Fondraux which is “officially” semi-sweet. The style has changed since 2016, I think, into something crisper than in the past, with more apple and pear flavours and less honey. At 16€ this is much better value than the other more prestigious names. I think the Fourth Growth level is probably appropriate.
Jacky Blot - I’m surprised he hasn’t been mentioned. Unlike the reds, I’ve slightly lost touch with the whites over the last few years, because of the competition. My favourite is Clos de la Bretonnière but maybe there are better ones now?
Muscadet
Domaine de la Pépière - definitely my favourite producer, but I’m not sure which wine is the one I prefer. I love Les Briords but also the crus, with perhaps a slight preference for Thébaud. I’m sure others have better suggestions.
Famille Lieubeau - not at quite the same level, but not far behind. The Thébaud 2015 I had recently was sensational, better than the Pépière 2017.
Bonnet-Huteau - same level as Lieubeau, but I am not sure which wine to choose. Perhaps Les Gautronnières?
Jo Landron - another contender for at least the second level, but which wine? I would go for Haute Tradition but others I’m sure will have more experience than me.
Anyway, just some ideas for discussion!
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Such a ranking is really difficult. The Bordeaux 1855 styled ranking is still marked by the size of the Châteaux and their production and the fact that they used to produce just one wine per Château, today usually two wines, sometimes three or more. In my view, this cannot be transferred to Loire whites from totally different areas with different soils, different grape varieties and with small properties that make lots of different wines (ranging from dry to sweet and even in sweet ranging from botrytis-influenced to botrytis-free). It takes four hours on the motorway to drive from Nantes to Sancerre, from an Atlantic climate with granite soils to a continental climate with a variety of soils (caillotes, Silex, argilo-calcaire), but just half an hour from St. Estèphe to Margaux-Cantenac.
Finally, there’s so much movement in the Loire valley. Just take the Anjou. Up until the late 1990s, it was an area for sweet wines: Bonnezeaux, Quarts de Chaume, Côteaux du Layon (including the Faye d’Anjou wines), the area where today you have cult wines such as Richard Leroy Noels de Montbenault or Stéphane Bernaudeau Les Nourrissons. Hardly anyone was interested in these wines ten years ago. And except in France, the Côteaux du Layon sweet wines were always rather special interest wines. Likewise, Saumur Blanc was an absolute insider wine fifteen years ago. Until around ten years ago, Thierry Germain bottled a Saumur Blanc “Insolite” and that was it. His single vineyard Saumur blancs were introduced only around 2011, 2012. There was Clos Rougeard Brézé, but also Romain Guiberteau did not bottle single vineyard Saumur Blancs until around mid 2000s.
If one wanted to make rankings for Loire whites, you could do it for certain vineyards such as Coulée de Serrant, Clos du Papillon, Clos St. Yves or Roche aux Moines in Savennières or Monts Damnées, La Grande Côte, Cul de Beaujeu, Les Romans, Le Paradis, etc. in Sancerre. But it always remains an exercise without a lot of meaning. The Coulée de Serrant has a special location, right by the Loire. It has a long history, it was regarded as - by far - the best vineyard in Savennières for centuries. But, tastes develop and botrytis in dry Chenins is not so well regarded anymore as it used to be. Today, most consumers prefer a cleaner style. Furthermore, the location and exposure of the Coulée de Serrant vineyard today poses the challenge how to avoid overripeness rather than having the advantage of producing perfectly ripe grape. Finally, the specific style sported by Nicolas Joly and his daughter is quite special. Is the Coulée de Serrant a “super first tier grand cru” because it’s a prime vineyard even if the wines appeal only to a very limited group of people?
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Really surprised by the lack of mention of Jacky Blot as well. Also happy about it 
Yeah Bretonniere and Venise are usually his top cuvées but it’s pretty consistent and close with the others as well (Haut de Husseau notably).
On the Sauvignon side, I rather enjoyed Matthieu Delaporte’s wines, unsure would I classify it but good wines and good value (even though prices are creeping up).
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Thanks very much for this Julian, I have been looking for some new wines from Anjou to fill in around the Bourdignon wines.
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Yup, Yule is my first name!
I’m glad you are enjoying the thread as well – your red Loire thread was a great inspiration.
And I just want to add that I really appreciate all of the thoughtful commentary and posts in the thread so far.