Which is your favorite big Merchant/Negociant house in Beaun

WINE TALK
21

I was surprised to see Drouhin with more votes than Jadot. To me, Jadot is by far the best of these both for quality and value. I think Clos des Ursules is Grand Cru quality. There. I’ve said it.

I currently like Bouchard a little more than Drouhin, with Latour behind, but not by much and not at all for the whites.

Chanson is a travesty. Here’s a recent note.
'05 Chanson Meursault 1er Cru ‘Genevrieres’ - This traditionally underperforming negociant continues to plumb the depths. Dilute, slightly green, with a hint of rather bitter oak tannins, this is inferior to the large majority of Bourgogne Blancs I’ve had. Rated 66.

Bouchard went through a dumb phase (actually so did Drouhin) and to me both houses suffer from wines that are a little too correct, sometimes too close to house style rather than terroir driven. I think Bouchard is more past it than Drouhin. Jadot to me always tastes like what it is and what it’s supposed to be. More experience with Jadot (virtuous circle), so also have more confidence in aging potential.

Dan Kravitz

22

to Richard Trimpi,

I’ve had 5 bottles of '04 Latour Meursault Blagny, every one just fine, every one the same. Not great wine but good, satisfying and a great value at the PLCB dump price. Sorry you’ve had premox.

Best regards,


Dan Kravitz

23

Dan, I’m actually quite relieved your case was good. Sante.

RT

24

Tough call for me, although I might go Jadot slightly over Drouhin and Bouchard for the reasons Lewis listed. Chanson and Latour wouldn’t be close for me.

I couldn’t love some of Drouhin’s wines more (e.g., Petits Monts, the reference standard there for me), but some of their wines I find less great. Tends to be that I love their domaine wines, but not their negoc wines as much. Not bad, but not at that reference standard level. So my Drouhin preferences aren’t across the portfolio, but limit to what I think are their best wines, and those are really great.

Bouchard and Jadot are a bit more consistent across the board, both red and white. I enjoy both, but stylistically maybe tend a bit more toward Jadot.

I had the pleasure of sitting by Pierre-Henri Gagey at a dinner several years ago and was really impressed by his vision of Jadot, that they focus on the lower appellations as much as the grand crus because they want to represent all of Burgundy. And you see it in their fantastic Beaune 1ers and across the board really.

But again, Jadot, Drouhin, and Bouchard are all tops in my book. I love that all three produce a really great, signature, ageable Beaune 1er.

Cheers,
-Robert

25

Funny that Chanson didn’t got a single vote but come to think of it i don’t think I ever had a bottle of Chanson.

26

It’d have to be Drouhin for me, partly because they seem the most forward-looking and willing to expand to new areas (I think Domaine Drouhin in Oregon are grown up Pinot producers), but mostly because of a string of quite brilliant white Clos des Mouches I had whilst at Oxford. They convinced me that white Burgundy can age with graceful style and class.

Cheers,
David.

27

If you had you wouldn’t be surprised.

I voted Drouhin though I wasn’t sure if you were asking for favorite negociant located in Beaune or favorite negociant/producer of Beaune wines.

Who’s Jospeh Drouhin, anyway :wink:?

Guillaume - for many years the markups on something like de Montille have been much higher in the US than the markups on the negociant houses. Unfortunately as Berry mentions the prices jumped dramatically on Drouhin grand crus as of 2005, in some cases as much as 3x.

Disclaimer - while they don’t make up as large a part of my cellar as Jadot does for Leo I own more Drouhin wines than any other producer. It’s generally their domaine wines that I most admire but there are a few of their negociant bottlings that I love. And then there’s the weird case of their Bonnes Mares which occasionally includes purchased fruit and thus is sometimes 100% domaine and sometimes not.

28

If I was buying only reds: Jadot. I remain embittered by the forehead-knuckling “What PremOx?” reaction I have met re: White Burgundy at this address.

If I was buying White and Red: Drouhin - In no small part because Laurent Drouhin is willing to discuss PremOx and how it has been wrestled with, plus Griottes, Petits-Monts and Musigny.

If I was buying only White: Latour. Good wines at smart prices.

Bouchard lags behind each of these addresses, though individual wines can be noteworthy.

Chanson is better recently, but price increases quickly have surpassed quality increases.

29

Ten years ago, I would have said Jadot, who was then the only one of the big negociant houses who made both great reds and great whites on a consistent basis. Today, to me the clear answer is Bouchard, again because this is, in my opinion, the only “big 5” producer today making both great reds and great whites on a yearly basis.

My take:

Bouchard–Incredibly good Chambertin Clos de Beze and Bonnes Mares and these two wines are consistently one of the top two or three wines produced from those appellations every year starting with 1999. The Corton and estate Clos Vougeot are also very high standard wines, and the Malconsorts is the rising star of the red portfolio. The reds seem to get better here with every vintage.

On the white side, the Montrachet, Chevalier Cabottle, “regular” Chevalier Montrachet and Corton Charlemagne are also consistently at the top every year and the Meursault Perrieres isn’t far behind and seems to be closing the gap. Bouchard seems to be doing well from a premox perspective, and they are both extremely open about the issue and proactive to the point of spending significant money to further minimize the problem, including their new high tech ultra-low oxygen bottling line and now weighing each cork individually to exclude low density/lower weight corks.

Jadot–Two consistently great reds produced here: Musigny and Beze. The Bonnes Mares and Gevrey Clos St. Jacques are very good, and exceptional in exceptional vintages, but they most often are not the stars of their respective appellations. The remaining reds, while above-average, and in some cases having good QPR (e.g. Beaune Ursulles) generally don’t excite me.

I used to love the Jadot whites, particularly the Chevalier Montrachet Demoisselles, the Montrachet and the Corton Charlie. But the wines took a significant turn for the worse starting with the 2000 vintage. Jadot had very little premox from 1993 to 1999, yet it seems to be out of control from 2000 on. I’ve quit buying Jadot whites completely, and as mentioned by Jim Coley above, Jadot/Kobrand basically ignores premox and the response seems to be “what premox problem?”

Drouhin–I have to say, after three decades of trying, I’ve never liked the whites here. I have the opportunity to drink seven and a half year old Montrachet De Laguiche every year, and while it is usually good to very good, it is never thrilling and never seems to me to be worth the asking price. On the reds, I’m a fan. The Musigny, Bonnes Mares, and Grands Echezaux are usually stars from their respective appellations and Griotte, Amoureuses, and Clos Vougeot are just a notch behind the top wines from their appellations. One caveat for me is that Drouhin had clearly subpar years in 2006 and 2007 and simultaneously raised their pricing considerably adding insult to self-inflicted injury.

As to Louis Latour (once my favorite producer of Corton Charlemagne) and Chanson, the wines are below average and not worth mentioning in the context of Bouchard, Drouhin and Jadot.

30

This was pretty close, but I voted for Jadot with Drouhin a close second. The greatness in jadot is not perhaps in teh young wines, but in the mature examples which have have aged beautifully. Recently had several 1996s, 1993s and 1990s, most of which have ranged from extremely good to superb. I have since drunk a couple of 1988s and the CSJ 1985, and was impressed by both. My experience with older Drouhin is also very good, but less consistent, and a couple of real clunkers.

Bouchard is improving, but would like to see them dial down the oak. Like others, I have yet to have a good Chanson. And Louis Latour seems to have emasculated its reds. Last older one tasted was a thin angular 1985 RSV Quatre Saisons. Whites are OK, but since I have stopped buying White Burgundy until premox has been solved, that is pretty irrelevant.

31

Leo:

You should probably have included Bichot and Remoissenet as well. I prefer both to Chanson and Latour.

32

At the Paulee de Meursault in 1995, my group was seated at the same table as the Kobrand/Jadot contingent. At some point during the “seven-hour lunch,” one of the Kopf sisters asked me, “What is you favorite Grand Cru?” “Clos des Ursules,” I answered. Only briefly taken aback, she smiled and said, “Mine, too.”

33

I voted for Drouhin because they’re in my wheelhouse stylistically, really nailing the seductive side of pinot noir and showing well both young and old. But Jadot probably has the better portfolio. They each have their marquee wines but what I love about Jadot is the unsung treasures like Clos de Croix de Pierre or the Chateau des Jacques crus. Also, even after you step down from Ursules, they have the best portfolio of Beaune 1er crus. Not sure I can name any small domaine that does Beaune better aside from Morot. That said, they do have a more particular drinking window than, say, Drouhin, and can be really punishing if you open them at the wrong time, which unfortunately sometimes includes right on release - skipping the initial period of openness and generosity that young wines often give you.

As for Bouchard, from somewhere around the 2004 vintage, I have found the oaking almost disgusting, and am no longer buying the wines. A shame considering some of their great sites like the Caillerets Cuvee Carnot. Don mentioned the Malconsorts. Didn’t I read somewhere that Bouchard’s Malconsorts came from Dom. de Montille as part of some kind of barrel swap? Maybe that results in less aggressive oak than some of their own wines,

34

Nice

35

I love the wines of Drouhin, Jadot and Bouchard. I picked Drouhin, but only by a hair.

I am most interested in the comments of Guillaume. In this country, these wines (esp. Jadot and Bouchard) are very well priced - usually less expensive than small domaines of comparable quality. I think it shows how much some importers are making in this country on the small domaines.

Of interest, I picked Drouhin for the same reason others picked Jadot and Bouchard (consistency). I love many of Jadot’s wines, but have found their whites less consistent and am not as wild about some of their lesser red wines. I am really impressed by Bouchard as well. They have some truly great values, including their Beaune de Chateau Premier Cru red. I picked Drouhin over Bouchard primarily because Bouchard had a quality gap prior to around 2000 or so where the wines were not as good.

36

My favorite is Drouhin by a close margin over Jadot. My least favorite is Latour, since they pastuerize their low-end wines

37

I’m not here to defend Latour, Dick, but rather to clarify the record on Latour’s pasteurization. [cheers.gif] Your comment is a variant of one frequently made about Latour’s reds. As far as I know, it’s all the reds that go through this treatment, not just the low end ones. Moreover, it’s a process that Latour has had in place since the 1920s, it is my understanding, so why do people think it craps up the contemporary wines but rave about some of the old Latours that they’ve had? Finally, why does no one similarly complain about Château de Beaucastel, which also flash pasteurizes its wines?

38

I have never been much of a fan of Latour over the years.

Also Beaucastel is a long way from my favorite CndP. Although they didn’t say anything about flash pasteurization when we visited them.

39

Jadot for Beaune, Bouchard for other communes (but not by much), espec. Volnay. Both Jadot and Bouchard carry relatively OK pricing up here.

40

I recently did a Burgundy tasting series, once a week for six weeks. Bouchard is one of the easiest to find in Florence, so I probably haven’t tasted enough of the rest, but Bouchard had the best wine or the second best wine EVERY time, and we tasted 6 or 8 each night. Their Bonnes Mares was one of my favorites. Here were some of the others we tasted:

Domaine Moreau Naudet
Domaine Jean Marc Morey
Domaine Thenard
Latour
Domaine Michelot
Domaine Parent