I was responding to inconsistency question. There are a few producers that I stopped buying because I was never sure how the wine was going to be when I opened the bottle.
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Are y’all talking about vintage to vintage, different disgorgement dates, or true ‘bottle variation’?
I think it’s more variation/fragile wines. I stopped buying the usual suspects so I cannot speak to newer vintages.
Vilmart & Cie Grand Reserve Brut NV is on Lastbubbles.com as today’s daily deal.
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Seems like a good deal if you pick up 3+ and get free shipping.
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The Bossa Nova, the new champagne from Guillaume Sergent, is based on the excellent 2021 vintage. Its tirage occurred in May 2022, and the degorgement took place in August 2023, with 0 dosage. Sergent has expanded his production area from 2 hectares to 4 hectares. The Bossa Nova is intended for early release, which allows for the other champagnes to be aged longer on the lees. This strategy addresses the frequent criticism that young champagnes, particularly the chardonnay, can seem disjointed when consumed young. The Bossa Nova is styled more for immediate enjoyment, in a ‘glugulp’ fashion, rather than for long-term aging. This is not a point of criticism. Its aroma is yeasty, reminiscent of brioche, with a slight oxidative hint. The champagne is medium-bodied with good tension. It showcases the typical saline minerality of Vrigny, and the fruit character is restrained, dominated by citrus flavors, particularly lemon, with a touch of kumquat. Whether this champagne will benefit from aging is uncertain, but it represents a fantastic effort.
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I’ve never heard this from a single Champenois, even those who do not especially like Olivier’s wines.
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I would love to spend the night discussing with you but we have a house to smoke before midnight, before auld nick starts making his rounds.
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It’s not a complicated discussion, some simple examples will suffice.
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Donald,
I enjoy Collin’s wines and, similar to you, I have never had an ‘a ha’ moment with them. I disliked the first few BdB releases and didn’t think some even tasted like Champagne. I struggled with understanding how some others thought they were the best thing they had tasted in years. But, Olivier changed things, the wines got better, and I think they are great stuff now. Not as great as many others do and I don’t think they are worth the price, but Olivier has come a long way from when he started and I think he deserves credit for what he has done. In the Petit Morin region, I prefer Oudiette to Collin and am just as happy to drink Jeaunaux-Robin or Clément as I am Collin though all of these are stylistically very different. The fact that Olivier has done great work really shouldn’t be surprising as his grandfather was regarded as the best producer in the region before Olivier’s father stopped producing Champagne. The raw materials were always there.
As for Olivier changing with the wind in terms of his vine/wine beliefs. I disagree on this. He tries new things, he observes, he learns, he adapts. He doesn’t stop questioning and he openly talks about why he may have stopped doing something and tried something different. Most of the great ones are like this - Vilmart, Selosse, Roederer, etc…
Where I will agree with you is on the business/marketing/image front and I think you have to separate this with whats in the bottle. I have heard and seen first hand what he is asking be done with his wines. It does appear that there is a hunger to be at the top or as they say in the small producer world, “I want to be #2 after Anselme”. Olivier isn’t the only producer chasing this make believe goal which is kind of funny because Anselme could care less about being number 1. Still, it is Olivier’s business and he can run it as he likes. I may not agree, you may not agree, but time will tell if he made the correct choice or not. So far, it appears he is still selling all the wine he wants. If you have moved on and found new producers, why continue to complain about it? I wish I could still buy Clos du Mesnil and VVF for $200, Salon for $140, Cristal for $125, DP for $85, Cedric Bouchard’s Les Ursules for $45, Selosse for $40, Chetillons for $30, etc… but complaining about it isn’t going to make it a reality again.
- edited first line for clarity, the fourth line for misspelling ‘got’ as ‘go’, and added additional wines to the last sentence.
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It’s only December 28th, but I think it’s safe to say that this is the most absurd analogy of the year. I don’t know what you/ChatGPT were thinking, but it’s ridiculously off-base.
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Post a note over here and a donation is made to a charity.
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There’s a fantastic line from one of Eco’s books how the conspiratist is always stymied by a request for fact. Maybe Foucault’s Pendulum? It’s too good to ruin by mis quoting.
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The Champenois are notoriously tight-lipped with importers.
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I am desperately trying to move on from this Ulysse Collin trauma but somehow it won’t let me go. I don’t think one can underestimate the scars this left in the community I move in.
Probably what bothers me most is this cultification of certian producers and how other producers are completly ignored and the imbalance this creates. In one sense this is good for prices for the savvy champagne drinker but at the same time creates alot of imbalances.
I would imagine you are just as aware of the diversity of styles and philosophies amongst producers, the basic idea that a number one or number two exists is risible. For every consumer say that likes Bedel there are probably 3 that do not like her champanges and this basically applies to every producer.
Collin is not alone in this aspiration, Bereche especially Raphael is another canditate.
If one can really take an agnostic aproach and with this I mean be truly open minded and open to all styles of champagnes with the coming of 2024, we are basically starting again with a blank sheet of paper and one has to eliminate the opinions of 2023 and start all over again. This for me is the most fascinating aspect of grower champagne.
Marguet Ambonnay 2018. 63% Pinot Noir 37% Chardonnay. Tirage 18 June 2019. Degorgemtn Februaury 2023 Dosage 0g/l. Sulfites 17 mg/l. I tasted the Ambonnay 2018 in October and it was one of my highlight of the year. So it was quite surprising to find this bottle perforemd totally different. The oak was just too much, totally dominated the champagne and allowed for no expression of aromatics or terroir. On the second day one tasted glimpses of the Ambonnay aromatics but the oak was too strong for there to be any sort of equilibrium. The bubbles were gone and I see little point in drinking champagne without bubbles.
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Reposting from another thread
2009 Deutz Amour de Deutz Blanc de Blancs. Outstanding from a magnum. Creamy, concentrated yet crisp. Peaches, apples and citrus with almond biscotti scents and flavors.
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A flawed bottle of '08 DP. Flat, stripped of flavor, it did not smell of tca, but I bet that was the underlying issue.
Warning: The attached label picture may cause the viewer moral outrage or sexual nostalgia.
2013 J. Lassaigne Millesime BdB, no dosage.
I’ve really enjoyed this producer’s BdB Vignes de Montgueux ever since getting tipped off to it by @Marcus_Goodfellow at few years ago. Coming from this highly acclaimed producer located in the chalky geological oddity of Montgueux, I had very high hopes for this bottling. Delicious in its own right, tart and taut, leaning a bit oxidative. It seemed to be in a ready place with nothing held at bay for the future. But after two bottles in as many months, I am ultimately disappointed. At $130, this provided no more visceral pleasure than the Vignes de Montgueux at $50. Perhaps the intellectual types would have gotten more out of it, but I’m a hedonistic drinker. And my wife didn’t say “wow.”
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I like Marguet’s vineyard designate wines and love Sapience. Haven’t tasted an Ambronnay that I recall, but will buy one to taste to see how our palates align.
I dislike oak signature(s) in many still wines but like it in Champagne; it is like adding salt to soup. I’m curious to see if I find this wine to be too oaky for my tastes.
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