A perfect example of a wine I’m delighted to try but would not purchase for my cellar.
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I can imagine that. These wines are probably the antithesis of Ulysse Collin.
I agree with that! Collin, like the producers I tend to buy, makes consistently excellent wines, and that’s not what I’ve experienced with Stroebel. I am always delighted to try the unique projects from my favorite producers (i.e. Agrapart’s Experience, some of Manu Lassaigne’s unusual one-off cuvees), but would not buy their wines consistently if that was their typical output.
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My wife hated it. For me there is a dichtonomy, In a sense it is a waste of a good champagne, one feels the underlying potential etc, yet the vegetal-fermenting sauerkraut element is too dominant. With food, especially roasted nuts the aromatics come out best but is was much better at lunch than in the evening, felt as if it was falling apart. I wanted to follow it over the course of a day but with hindsight, should have finished it off at lunch.
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You know, the funny thing is, when Olivier was starting out, his wines were extremely variable and I found the BdBs to often be off-putting and sometimes slightly bizarre. Many really loved them though. Still, the wines were sometimes found on the discount rack (I scooped up many early releases of Blanc de Noirs/Les Maillons this way). My first meeting with Olivier is when he invited me to come taste because I said I disliked his Chardonnays and found his winemaking volatile. We had a great discussion and I think we both learned some things. Olivier has always been open minded, very good at taking constructive criticism, and driven to achieve the vision he has made for himself, his winery, and his wines. I will admit I never thought his wines would get to the place they are at today. They are far better than I ever imagined, but it took a lot of patience, learning, smart decision making, and strategic planning to get to where he is today. The wines from the mid to late 2000s are completely different from the wines of today. Older vines and continued good work in the vineyard have helped, but the key is how Olivier has dialed in his wine making and not been afraid to make changes based on science or logic.
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Girard-Bonnet Dec 21 disgorgement. 50:50 Mesnil:Oger. 2g/l. Far from ideal glasses in our Airbnb.
Chalky, a hint of autolysis, Granny Smith and lemon pith. Not the best showing of this.
I completely agree with you. I fell in love with the wines when I had a Pierrieres from @2012, but they were quite inconsistent back then (especially the Maillons) - it wasn’t until the 2014 vintage that he really hit his groove. This is why my preferred approach is to drink widely and to buy narrowly. If I hadn’t tried lots of things I definitely wouldn’t have found Olivier’s wines because, I entirely agree with you, they were not at their height in those days. And I also very much admire his desire to make better wines. They are not necessarily for everyone, but that is also OK from my perspective. Plenty of well made wines that others love which I do not.
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2014 Geoffroy Champagne Premier Cru Volupté - France, Champagne, Champagne Premier Cru (12/25/2023)
Well I drink a ton of champagne on Christmas with my entire family. Late in the evening this bottle was still on ice. My kids opened it and almost finished it before I had a sip. I grabbed Camille‘s class, took a sip and was wowed. Certainly no detail; but it was very bright, and inviting… That’s all I got! I’m glad I have two more because I can’t wait to try a bottle it’s been a little time with it!
Posted from CellarTracker
This might not be the most helpful note of all time. Just wanted to give it a mention, the small sip I had was really good…considering the condition… of the taster!
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Thanks for this! I was just recently asking about Geoffroy, having taken a long hiatus from drinking them, so this is helpful. William Kelley’s recent report also confirmed I need to have another look at them.
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If you take the principle from Naomi Klein’s book Doppelgänger, there are a lot of people out there who would say exactly the opposite.
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Let’s help make some money for a charity. Post your notes in this thread through Wednesday.
Thank you!
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On the list at Jupiter for a fair price. A bit shy on opening, followed by a melange of orchard fruit and lovely lifting acidity as it opened-up and warmed. On the young side, but a pleasure to drink.
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Nice!
Talk about coming full circle with that easy to read label!
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This issue of consistency is one I’ve been thinking about recently.
Marguet is the top of mind example - I have loved these wines very much and have learned much from them.
The Shaman Rose (base 18) was my ultimate qpr. You could get it for $55. One out of every 4ish bottles was “off,” to some degree. But - when the wine was on it was just fantastic at that price point (was probably too cheap).
His Sapience as well. One of the best wines of my life was a Sapience. But also some complete misses (which as that price point is painful for me).
All his wines, of which there are many now, have this wide variance. I now will rate the wines with variance bc I view it as part of the house experience as opposed to an aberration.
I find myself more frustrated when I encounter the variation than I used to fine with. Considering reallocating that spend to a different house or just exploration.
These variables: variation, price changes, the ability to out-perform vs steady eddy, grower vs large house of course are well worn conversations topics, but I do find myself recalculating where my ideal balance is.
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Donald,
Not quite sure that comparison makes sense. People can complain that Olivier’s wines cost more now, they can complain that they don’t like Olivier’s business decisions, they can complain that they don’t get the allocation they once did, they can complain they don’t like the rules that come with getting an allocation, they can complain that too many people like the wines, etc…, but there is no conspiracy or this side vs. that side. Olivier’s wines and winemaking are much improved now vs. then. The vineyard conditions are too. There may be things you don’t like about what Olivier is doing, but it isn’t anything I would correlate with Klein’s Doppelgänger. But, please tell me, who is Naomi Klein and who is Naomi Wolf in your Olivier Collin Doppelgänger situation.
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Extracted from a thread just posted re Christmas dinner wines poured blind:
2011 TAITTINGER COMTES de CHAMPAGNE BLANC de BLANC- blind; one sip and for me, it was 2006 Comtes, the youthful, super fresh, amazing, elegant version that characterized all of the bottles I drank soon after release; and, the likeness did not stop there as it even had a light yellow color and frothy, creamy mousse as well as mild ginger accented citrus fruit featuring lemon and lime and bright acidity; in time, some yellow apple joined in and once revealed, I could recall all of the above in a previous bottle of 2011 tasted in August and my comparison to the early stages of the 2006; the 2011 vintage has received mixed reviews on WineBeserker, but I’ve now had 3 really good ones blind; there were 8 more who held thumbs up on this night.
1999 FALLET-DART BRUT- blind; the color was yellow toward gold and the nose first offered ginger, pepper, licorice, anise and spice accented peach and yellow apple; the pepper, licorice and anise reminded me of a trait I find in Piper Heidsieck Rare, but it kept moving further away from that profile with more citrus fruit notes devoid of those notes; in time, it became richer and more full bodied, yet maintaining a lovely state of elegance; two stated it bordered on being oxidative for them, but my parts per million perception did not pick that up; I was surprised to discover it was 1999 as it showed much younger IMHO; 66% Chardonnay, 34% Pinot Noir.
KRUG GRANDE CUVEE 162 eme- my bring poured blind to the others; it was showing beautifully all the way through as it just reeked of royalty and class with loads of flavors and in perfect balance; lemon, lime and yellow apple were embellished with a touch of brioche and ginger while being delivered in a soft and creamy mousse; it finished on an upbeat leaving an impression of grandeur; this cuvee is based on 2006 representing 60% of the total; the remainder comes from 11 different vintages starting with 1990; it is comprised of 44% Pinot Noir, 35% Chardonnay and 21% Pinot Meunier.
Cheers,
Blake
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There is much I agree with here. The Marguet is a poster child for inconsistency. Plus I just like them less now. To your point I really have tried to find more consistent and great wines, and stopped buying the classic “what the heck’s in the bottle” guys. Lately, I have had very good performance out of Aubry, Mousse, Hebrart, Margain, Chiquet, to name a few…
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We used to sell Collins Champagnes until someone decided to list them on eBay in Italy, and that marked the end of that era. I’ve never had a defining moment with Collin’s Champagnes, despite conducting numerous tastings with his products. There was no consensus among the drinkers; some liked them other did not. With Egly it was different.
Now that they are essentially unavailable, they have become obsolete for me, and probably for most wine enthusiasts. When it comes to Klein, she delves into the opposing viewpoints to Naomi Wolf’s perspective. In Champagne circles, there is a consensus that Collin pursues his craft for the sake of success, rather than deep-seated belief in his methods. It seems to change with the times; one year it’s the moon, the next, something else.
To be honest, Collin did us a favour. When we lost him, we were forced to reevaluate our approach with producers, and I believe this adjustment has paid off. It’s akin to a colleague in Reims; even a decade ago, losing a producer like Collin would have been a disaster. Nowadays, it hardly matters. There’s an abundance of choices, and many excellent producers are on the rise.
It appears that Collin may be experiencing a significant degree of mental strain, based on what I’ve heard. Best leave him alone.
I’ve experienced some of the same with Marguet. Not-so-surprisingly, the first few I had were phenomenal — I don’t think I ran into a clunker until maybe my fifth bottle. I absolutely love them when they’re on, and consider those bottles to be in the upper tier. I’ve also had a few bottles (maybe 3?) that have planted the “these don’t age well” seed in my mind — nothing wrong with that, if that’s the case — just good to know so one can buy and store accordingly.
I’ll continue to buy, but not with the same aplomb I once did. An initial hot streak can be difficult to walk away from.
What do you mean by this, Charlie?