When will 2005 Red Burgundy’s be at their best?

WINE TALK
#1

Clive Coates MW; The village Cote de Beaunes in around 2016 and the Premier crus in 2018. The village Cote de Nuites should be held until 2019, while many of the top Premier and Grand Crus need keeping until the mid -2020s.

#2

That’s a very long time for Clive. I expect he’s right.

#3

Sure it vm depends on the Cru, producer and his style … so any generalization is difficult and even misleading …

Age 12 (2017) for the easier wines (Village CdB etc.) may be a good starting point if you like them on the younger side - but the best GCs from the CdNuits may easily reward cellaring beyond 25, 30 years … (that means 2030 and later).

I would open a 2005 now only if necessary for scientific purposes [whistle.gif] (meaning any kind of comparative tasting etc.)

I´m quite sure that any competently made 2005 Burg from Village upwards will make it beyond 2025 (if not emptied earlier … [wink.gif] )

#4

I hope he’s wrong, but as you suggest, he’s likely correct… [cry.gif]

TTT

#5
  • 2005 Forey Père et Fils Nuits St. Georges - France, Burgundy, Côte de Nuits, Nuits St. Georges (9/14/2013)
    This 2005 had a tight nose with aromas earth and black fruit. On the palate first some quite rustic tannins and more towards leather rather than pretty fruit. After a few hours it became more balanced and the upcomming acidity made the wine finer and fresher.

What’s dominating here producer style or vintage character?

Posted from CellarTracker

#6

Barry-that sounds like Nuits!

#7

2018 for Cote de Beaune 1er crus = 13 years past the vintage date, seems much too soon to me. If you were drinking 1996 1ers in 2009 or 1999 1ers in 2012 you were most likely not a happy camper, and 2005 might need even more time than those years. Mid-2020s strikes me as a more realistic starting point but for pretty much everything, not just grand crus. Anyone who’s not willing to invest 20-30+ years in these wines should really consider other vintages.

#8

I agree with Gerhard and Keith. I think 05 reds won’t begin to approach their peak-plateaus until at least age 18, and the better premier and grand crus probably won’t be at their best until age 25+.

#9

I view my 05’s as part of my retirement savings, a 401W, if you will, so cellar longevity does no real harm. [cheers.gif]

#10

Definitely agreed. For example, I have 11 bottles left of 2005 Lamy Chassagne rouge La Goujonne VV. That’s a village wine, but I don’t plan on opening one for another decade. And then I expect it to be in need of more time, but it’s worth a shot given that I have nearly a case.

#11

All three.
NSG is not a smooth fruitdriven Appellation, Forey favores a concentrated masculine style, and the vintage is structured …

#12

Anyone that pinpoints a year that the '05’s will be ready is merely speculating, nothing more and nothing less. So much depends upon the wine, the producer, etc. Pronouncing a date of 2016, 2019, or something else, is guesswork at best.

I have drunk quite a number of 2005 Burgundies, mostly Village, 1er Cru or Grand Cru wines. They have varied from very attractive now to holding off for some years yet. There isn’t a clear pattern with which to make any generalizations. I have been pleased with the quality, of course, but will continue to open them along the way to gauge their progress to maturity. That is a luxury from laying down these wines in quantity.
Cellar conditions can also be an important factor, as will transportation and storage in advance of acquisition.

Hank [cheers.gif]

#13

Exactly Hank!

Though many 05s are spectacular right now, they have nothing to do with ‘maturity’ however the individual taster’s palate chooses to define it. I personally don’t think that it’s necessarily helpful to judge ‘maturity’ in the context of vintages like 1996, as 96 never had the concentration and innate balance of the 05s - many 96s needed time, most 05s didn’t if you just wanted fireworks combined with balance…

I am in no doubt that (aged nearly 51) most of my 2005s will still be brilliant after I am dead - villages too - such is their perfect balance despite a unique combination of concentration and complexity (before the 12s… :wink:), but I will choose to maximise my potential for harvesting, rather than leaving them to somebody less worthy :wink:

#14

Hank, yes, we’re speculating, but it’s based on extrapolating our knowledge of the 05s’ structure and our experiences of previously drinking multiple Burgundies of various ages from many vintages. So, I think it’s informed opinion and, therefore, not without value to the original poster’s question.

To me, Bill Nanson’s statement, above, that “I am in no doubt that (aged nearly 51) most of my 2005s will still be brilliant after I am dead - villages too - such is their perfect balance despite a unique combination of concentration and complexity…” is similarly very well-informed speculation and of value.

Also, it’s hardly going out on a limb to say a Grand Cru from a big, structured vintage won’t be at its best until it’s 20+ years old (and I recognize that we’re not addressing personal preferences of “best” and “maturity.”)

#15

Agreed! While such harvesting may turn out to be difficult work, I view it as an exciting and fulfilling future project.

Cheers, [cheers.gif]
Andrew

#16

Whilst far from what I suspect will be their best drinking, they are actually drinking really well right now. A Mongeard-Mugneret Grands Echézeaux on Friday was singing.

#17

I agree with this. Every 05 I’ve opened this year has been delicious (although most have been Bourgogne, I’ve had a few village and 1er wines). I’m not sure what to make of it but i suspect that like all burgundy vintages, 05 will age in a non-linear way and that there will be peaks and valleys for many many years. Given how structured the wines were on release, I’d be surprised if peaks were not still appearing 40 to 50 years after the vintage. Think of great '62 and 64 are right now.
A

#18

Claude Jousset-Drouhin at Chandon de Briailles told me 2017 for Savigny village

#19

be at their best–doesn’t it depend where in the aging spectrum one likes their wine, as well as storage conditions, the particular domaine, the particular vineyard, and the vintage? With such a structured vintage, for my taste, completely generalizing, I would guess about 40 years from now, plus or minus thirty.

#20

Well I’m but a peasant compared to some here but I do agree that any generalization is quite silly. I’ll pull my village and Givry in about 4 years to see where they are at. I’ve found that the 93 D’Angerville has recently come into it’s own. I expect nothing less from the 05’s.