What's your approach to posting TNs here?

[Peter_Chiu]

@AndrewH

@Peter Chiu

(2) Wines themselves vary with time and conditions of tasting, and that wine tasting is an intrinsically subjective process in any case.

Variation over time is an important reason for TNs, though. If a wine is drinking well at a given moment, that’s a useful piece of knowledge (although perhaps less useful without knowledge of cellaring conditions, etc.)

Totally agree. One of reasons why I love to read TNs…

[TomHill]

@Neal.Mollen

Why don’t I post notes of my own? Because I am quite certain my notes would be no more helpful (and maybe much less so) to others than the notes described above are to me. I will sometimes post a note because the wine is unusual for some reason (age of the wine e.g.), because I have had a recently-released wine on which others might be making purchase decisions, or because I was just blown away by something.
I also drink wine exclusively for pleasure, and taking notes while I do is mutually exclusive with enjoyment

Hmmm…I guess I don’t find taking a TN detracts from my enjoyment, Neal. I like to think the enjoyment of a wine has
two components. The sensual pleasure and the intellectual pleasure. Some wines (like the JCCllrs Misc.Stuff last night)
just offer up sensual pleasure. For others, the wine makes me think and the intellectual pleasure is equally, or more so, important.
And being able to discuss the wine with someone, either in person or on a wine board, is an important part of my enjoyment
of a wine.
I find many of the TN’s here quite useful. I don’t particularly care if my palate “aligns” w/ the poster or not. I’m just interested in
their general take on the wine, especially if it’s one I have are may be wanting to taste. If iit’s a NapaVlly Cab, a RedBdx, a RedBurg…
then I have very little interest since I’ve pretty much blown off those wines. But iif it’s a SavoieMondeuse, a Calif Trosseau, a
Slovene Refosk…than I’m all ears…as those are the wines that excite me.
“Pleasure”…yes…by all means. But the “intellectual” is also, to me, as important.
Tom

[Peter_Chiu]

Peter -
I was on the parker board as well. Alan may have occasionally posted a note like that. But those posts were few and far between compared to the numerous incredibly and insightful things that Alan posted.
AAlex Gillette.

Alex…thanks for reply. I was just pulling Alan’s leg.

I was really shocked when I saw what Mark ( of the OtherB ) made his comments of possible agaianst Alan.

But those posts were few and far between compared to the numerous incredibly and insightful things that Alan posted

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Bill Klapp

Exhibit A in the case against tasting notes:

“The 2001 Vina Tondonia Reserva is bridled with a lovely nose of decayed red fruit, fireside hearth, a touch of mulberry and small red cherry. The palate is medium-bodied with fine tannins, crisp red fruits (wild strawberry and cranberry) with a sharp, vibrant, tense, tannic finish that has immense precision. There is a slight saline note lingering in the mouth after the wine has (regretfully) departed. Drink now-2030+”

This was written by a moderately effete, self-important Brit who shall remain nameless (along with his employer), but it demonstrates in a very few words a quite remarkable ignorance of the English language and its usage. We begin with a wine that is “bridled” by its “lovely nose”. A bridle is essentially a control and guidance mechanism for a horse or similar beast. We all understand the concept of “restrained” in a wine’s nose, but this note suggests that the wine is being restrained by its nose. Hardly seems possible, eh? “Decayed red fruit” is another nice touch. “Decayed” is a euphemism for “rotten”. Is a wine that reeks of rotten red fruit likely to merit 95 points? Apparently so, in this case. Since “hearth” means either a fireplace or the floor of a fireplace, WTF is “fireside hearth” supposed to mean? And “small red cherry” conveys WHAT, exactly? Does this fool expect us to believe that he can discern a difference between a small red cherry and a MEDIUM red cherry? And doesn’t it seem that maybe the designation of SWEET red cherry or SOUR red cherry is required to communicate anything, and, if the cherry is sour and the urge to be effete and obtuse is unbridled in the author, perhaps even adding the specification of a distinctively flavored type of small red cherry like, say, the French griotte or the Italian visciole might convey something to at least a few people, even if only in rural Europe? Likewise, the notion that anything tastes of wild strawberries and cranberries is mindless bullshitting for its own sake. I have wild strawberries growing in my yard, and I can assure you that eating ONE cranberry will instantly destroy your ability to detect the aroma or flavor of anything as delicate as a wild strawberry, so the two cannot possibly coexist in a taste of wine. And lastly, I struggle to understand the distinction to be made between “precision” and “immense precision”. It seems to me that a finish already described as “sharp”, “vibrant”, “tense” and “tannic” (the last one of the few descriptors in the above tasting note that actually conveys any meaning) could almost be assumed to possess “precision”, but are we to understand that, rather than “precision” simply being the opposite of “imprecise”, “murky” or “muddled”, that there are many DEGREES of precision to wine finishes? And if so, does “immense” convey anything at all? (To be fair, I concede that “slight saline note” actually communicates something generally understandable. Just too little, too late.)

My point is this: Neal Martin (not his real name) and the other tasting-note regurgitators do not carefully consider beforehand, much less re-read and edit, the garbage that they crank out endlessly. That being the case, why would anyone want to read such drivel, substitute uncredentialed palates that are dulled and ultimately burnt out by tasting 10,000+ wines a year for their own, and then base buying decisions on it? Don’t bother to answer…that was a rhetorical question!

Bill,

While the English major part of me appreciates your dedication to semantics and syntax, the TN-posting part of me feels that your post could rightfully be considered Exhibit B against posting TN’s; some folks are afraid that their TN will be dissected, scrutinized part-by-dissected-part, and then criticized — exactly as you have done here (with some personal attacks thrown in for good measure). Why do that? It’s simply mean-spirited.

Are all TN’s equal? IMO, “No; they are not.” That said, I appreciate each and every tasting note that anyone writes and posts in good faith. If they’re not helpful to you – fine, there’s nothing wrong with that. If you don’t like reading them – fine, there’s nothing wrong with that, either; simply don’t read them. I fail to see the point in harshly criticizing them, however. One can always ask the author of the TN questions, if clarification is sought.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Neal.Mollen

@Brian G r a f s t r o m

Neal,
Are you operating under the assumption that the only valid or worthwhile reason to post TN’s to a wine discussion forum is to “help” others?

Um, yeah. If you are not posting it for others, why put it on a public resource?

As a catalyst for conversation. For interesting reading (I know I know — that might seem absurd, but some folks (I’m one of them) actually find reading tastings notes to be interesting). If anybody actually finds them “helpful,” that’s just an added bonus.

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

Robert and Brian, I am not to be feared by amateur posters of tasting notes here, nor do I have any beef with the likes of CT. I dissected the work of an alleged “professional”, primarily to point out that he and his ilk are anything BUT professionals. Only our subscription bucks and support of their tasting events make them so. If, however, my words have any chilling effect on amateur posters, it should not be based upon their perceptions of the worth or lack hereof of their own writing, but rather, upon the utility of tasting notes in general. I am obviously highly skeptical of the herd instinct that drives the phenomenon of scores and tasting notes, which is all but unique to the U.S. and a large handful of foreign wine buffs who subscribe to the American value system. Elsewhere in the world (maybe a few wealthy Chinese businessmen excepted), only producers and other ITB types with skin in the game pay any attention to the American and British wine press. I live in Italian wine country, and it would stun you to know how few people have ever heard of Parker. He came and went here without leaving as much as a ripple among the non-ITB populace. Ditto Galloni, Thomases, Tanzer, d’Agata, Suckling, you name them. Indeed, if anybody is going to engage in writing tasting notes, I think that it should be amateurs on boards like this. The exercise is harmless enough. My problem lies mainly with the foolishness propagated by the pros…

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Fair enough, Bill. But, this conversation is about the posting of tasting notes here, not about the utility of tasting notes, in general. The post of yours that I responded to was in need of the clarification you just provided; thank you for doing that.

[Bill_Boykin]

@Brian G r a f s t r o m

Fair enough, Bill. But, this conversation is about the posting of tasting notes here, not about the utility of tasting notes, in general. The post of yours that I responded to was in need of the clarification you just provided; thank you for doing that.

Don’t thank him…he’ll just do it again.

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

No, I won’t, but only to be contrary, Bill. Are you ever coming over here? I could be convinced to pull a bottle from deep in the cantina for Nebbiolo aesthetes like yourself and Mr. Maskell…

[Bill_Boykin]

Where is here?
Raleigh or Alba?

The answer for either is yes.

[Sean_Moore]

@Joe Hauck

I used to post at least one note if not two a week, probably more in the Ebob days than here, but hardly even jot anything down anymore. The two main reasons are-

1. My kids demand a lot more of my time these days.
2. I’ve realized that I get more enjoyment from a bottle when I can just sit and drink without having to analyze every aspect of it.

I’ve gone through about 20 bottles the last six months and don’t think I’ve I even wrote a single note in CT.

Yep.

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

@mike pobega

@J a y H a c k

…I once got a PM criticizing me for posting notes on every wine I wrote about instead of just the good ones. I suggested to the writer that if he did not want to read my notes, he could choose not to open them. He responded in a manner that could opnly be described as very insulting and then said I was arrogant. I told him that I was definitely arrogant, but that he was an a$$hole, and I preferred to be arrogant. I think he soon disappeared from the Board, …

10-12 more exchanges like that and this board will show some improvement.
I will forward you a list…

What doooooo you mean?

[Mike_Grammer]

I’ll sort of respond, not in the poll—might be good to rename title and then set up a separate poll for those who do enjoy posting?

When I’m traveling and OL-ing, I’m almost religious in note-taking and posting, usually the next day if I can

When I’m home, I seem to be a lot slower—witness that I have notes from a month and a half ago that I haven’t gotten up yet.

Harder to post when it’s single bottles and when I’m doing a dinner party and not scribbling—I’m not he of the mimetic memory.

I enjoy reading TNs and would always hope for more on the board.

I haven’t done a comprehensive analysis, but I find enough U.S. wine TNs on here to keep me engaged. And I’m one of those “Burgundy guys”—well in the kind of main, anyway

[Bill_Klapp_deactivated]

@Bill Boykin

Where is here?
Raleigh or Alba?

The answer for either is yes.

Neive. Why would you want to go to Raleigh? The bottle would have to be damn good, and as you well know, the food is a hell of a lot better here…

[Charlie_Carnes]

@GregT

Third, as for the notes I have at home, why would anyone else want to read those? Sometimes they’re nasty, sometimes enthusiastic, but they’re just to remind me what I thought about a wine. If I write a few impressions, I can somehow remember things better. A score will only tell me thumbs up or down; it won’t give me anything to recreate the experience.

See I like these ‘quick impressions’, whether nasty or enthusiastic. From good and trusted tasters, they are very helpful.

@GregT

Smells really jammy and fruity with a touch of wood on nose. Not overly woody though, more like a hint of vanilla over the big fruit that promises a classic Shiraz. Too bad it’s dry, bitter, and dead. Nose promises big fruit, but all that’s left is that hint of wood on dark and bitter juice with an acidic finish. The acid is almost an afterthought and you wonder where the hell it came from. The non-existent fruit? If only. It would be nice if there were any fruit at all. One of the most f’d up wines in months. 78

So there’s a TN. You really want to read more of those? I hardly think so.

That could be helpful. I have sold or poured a ton of wines that meet that description. It pretty accurately describes my experience with many similar wines. If anything, a note like this will cause me to read more notes from the author.

[Charlie_Carnes]

@AndrewH

@Todd F r e n c h

Great thread - interesting to see that the two most popular are diametrically opposed, and if more would ‘have time or inclination’ to post them, more would be found here. Even more ironic from a personal perspective is that those are the very two I chose

We should also take a poll on whether people here want to see more tasting notes or not . . . I’d be happy to cross-post my CT notes, but didn’t want to spam up this board with my relatively unsophisticated notes.

Again nothing wrong with relatively unsophisticated notes. A little judgement doesn’t hurt, but there are plenty of ways not to “spam” this board.

[SainaN]

For some reason I don’t post most of my TNs here. And I’m not sure I have a good reason for that. A lot of mine are on CT and considering that my tastes in wine can be a bit offbeat I am quite amazed at how many people on CT have “favourited” my notes. Perhaps that really means that I’ll have to start posting here as well - it certainly would be good to get feedback on the wines I taste, especially the more obscure ones.

[Joe_Dulworth]

I post every note to CT first and my blog second. I quit posting them each separate wine forum except upon request, mostly due to the time required to cross post everything and then monitor it for follow up afterward across all of the forum.

[MattTM]

I probably take notes on about half the wines I open from my cellar, but will almost always take notes at tasting events and dinners. All notes are posted onto CT, but very rarely do they get cross posted to a forum.

I guess there’s a couple reasons why. The experienced palates and quality of the wines that some here post about blow my notes out of the water. As well, when I write my notes they are made solely for me. I get what I need from them, but am not sure how much value they bring to others. That said, after reading this thread maybe I should post them more often. I enjoy reading notes on this board and will try to contribute more in the future

[Chris_Seiber]

Internet message boards become somewhat self-screening after awhile. People naturally want to bring up things in discussion, whether on an internet message board or in face to face conversation, which the other persons are going to find interesting to discuss (for example, this is probably why you don’t discuss the 2011 vintage in the Nahe region with your father in law or your secretary).

On this board, there are certain regions and types of wines that are likely to generate interest when you post TNs (Burg, Rhys, Cabot, Loire cab franc, Giacosa, etc.), and others that are likely to generate interest if you post very negative TNs (“Kosta Browne is a hot stewed mess!!” “This Pavie tasted like Aussie Shiraz!!”), and then a huge expanse of other producers, grapes and regions that will probably generate little or no interest.

And I think it’s only human nature, even subconsciously, to tend to bring up the former and not to bother bringing up the latter. I don’t think it’s necessarily vanity, insecurity, or anything else bad, you just tend not to bring up things in conversation that aren’t going to be received with any interest, or are going to be received with derision. As time goes on, it becomes more clear what things don’t go with the board zeitgeist, they get brought up less and less often, and that in turn reinforces the lack of desire to post about them.

I don’t make that observation as a complaint or as a criticism of anyone here, I think it’s more just the way these things naturally go, and not just when wine is the discussion topic, but on other internet discussion boards I’ve seen as well. There are other reasons as well (lack of ability/confidence in the ability to relate something of interest and value to others in a TN being the foremost one).