What's the deal with double decanting?

Jay_Miller · February 2, 2021, 1:34pm

You’ll likely get a variety of responses. In my case, I double decant because a) I want to get the wine off its sediment, so I can pour to the bottom during a dinner without worrying about that; and b) more often than not I want to give the wine a bit of air, which double decanting will do, even if it’s not as much as sitting open in a decanter for hours. I’ll double decant younger wines, even white wines where sediment is not an issue, just for the air exposure.

Alan, Alan, Alan! You were the one who demonstrated that virtually no oxygen penetrates the surface of a wine sitting in a decanter – that the oxygen is introduced by the splashing of decanting. Have you forgotten?!

If no oxygen penetrates the surface of a wine, how does an opened - then closed - wine under seal oxidize over time … through the bottle glass?

Please note the difference between “virtually no” and “no”.

As for double decanting I do it for 2 reasons:

To remove wine from sediment
To expose wine to air

It’s put back in the bottle for one of 3 reasons:

For transport
If I am serving more bottles than I have decanters
To minimize air contact for a wine that I decanted for sediment

John_Morris · February 2, 2021, 1:35pm

You’ll likely get a variety of responses. In my case, I double decant because a) I want to get the wine off its sediment, so I can pour to the bottom during a dinner without worrying about that; and b) more often than not I want to give the wine a bit of air, which double decanting will do, even if it’s not as much as sitting open in a decanter for hours. I’ll double decant younger wines, even white wines where sediment is not an issue, just for the air exposure.

Alan, Alan, Alan! You were the one who demonstrated that virtually no oxygen penetrates the surface of a wine sitting in a decanter – that the oxygen is introduced by the splashing of decanting. Have you forgotten?!

If no oxygen penetrates the surface of a wine, how does an opened - then closed - wine under seal oxidize over time … through the bottle glass?

Alan’s earlier thread made the point that even with a large surface area, wine in a decanter does not absorb much oxygen while sitting there.

In answer to your question, in my experience, just pulling a cork and then recorking a bottle isn’t likely to oxidize a wine quickly, particularly if it’s reasonably young and sturdy. But it probably will result in a less good seal when you recork it.

Brian_Tuite · February 2, 2021, 1:40pm

If you want to minimize air contact that second pour back into the bottle is self-defeating.

ChrisL · February 2, 2021, 1:43pm

I see a main reason is to get rid of sediment, do any of you use a funnel/strainer combo that I’ve seen around? Are those taboo/forbidden? Seems like it solves the sediment aspect
Edit: something like the attached picture

Robert.A.Jr · February 2, 2021, 1:44pm

You’ll likely get a variety of responses. In my case, I double decant because a) I want to get the wine off its sediment, so I can pour to the bottom during a dinner without worrying about that; and b) more often than not I want to give the wine a bit of air, which double decanting will do, even if it’s not as much as sitting open in a decanter for hours. I’ll double decant younger wines, even white wines where sediment is not an issue, just for the air exposure.

A

You are decanting offf the sediment, rinsing out the bottle and pouring the wine back into the bottle for serving/transport to dinner where it can be then served from the bottle with sufficient air.

How do you guys handle the cork and capsule when you do this? They rarely go back in and on perfectly. I’m always concerned about how the restaurant will react. Ok to do for a friends house or the club.

If the restaurant wants to make a big deal about the fact that I decanted the bottle before I came they can pound sand. There are other restaurants that want my business.

Yeah that attitude works fine if you’re willing to walk away right then and there, but less fine if you have a reservation and are meeting friends at the restaurant, which is my normal MO. I would need to know in advance.

Fu got me thinking about the decanter, I’m going to ask my club whether they are OK with me walking in with a decanter. I bet they are, I just never bothered to ask.

John_Morris · February 2, 2021, 2:13pm

In some states, I believe it’s illegal to bring in an open bottle, so it may sometimes be out of licensing concerns.

Brian_Tuite · February 2, 2021, 2:18pm

If the cork is back in the bottle there is no way the server can prove it was opened. I tore iff the capsule to make sure the cork wasn’t leaking. I heard the cork pop, didn’t you?

Then again I don’t live in a State with archaic wine laws.

Ian_S · February 2, 2021, 2:48pm

It’s all about the Orphan Annie decoder ring.

John_Morris · February 2, 2021, 2:50pm

Yes, this is one area where California is the sanest state.

Chris_Foley · February 2, 2021, 3:28pm

That strainer is good for cork but not fine enough for sediment.

When I decant to remove sediment I use a rabbit strainer/funnel in my pitcher with the strainer removed. I put the strainer in a tasting glass just to one side. I try to avoid is stirring up the sediment by tipping and untipping the bottle, so as soon as I think the sediment is close to reaching the bottle neck I move over to the glass and pour the last ounce or two thru the fine strainer screen. The fine mesh screen still isn’t enough to eliminate all the sediment, and the character of that final pour is noticeably different from the rest of the wine.

Brian_Tuite · February 2, 2021, 3:30pm

Corey_N · February 2, 2021, 3:51pm

You really want to be driving around with an open container of alcohol, counselor?

Robert.A.Jr · February 2, 2021, 3:59pm

I am a very persuasive talker…

Corey_N · February 2, 2021, 4:07pm

Some would say a cunning linguist.

Tim_Heaton · February 2, 2021, 5:03pm

(mic drop)

Marshall_Manning · February 2, 2021, 5:22pm

I see a main reason is to get rid of sediment, do any of you use a funnel/strainer combo that I’ve seen around? Are those taboo/forbidden? Seems like it solves the sediment aspect
Edit: something like the attached picture

That strainer is good for cork but not fine enough for sediment.

When I decant to remove sediment I use a rabbit strainer/funnel in my pitcher with the strainer removed. I put the strainer in a tasting glass just to one side. I try to avoid is stirring up the sediment by tipping and untipping the bottle, so as soon as I think the sediment is close to reaching the bottle neck I move over to the glass and pour the last ounce or two thru the fine strainer screen. The fine mesh screen still isn’t enough to eliminate all the sediment, and the character of that final pour is noticeably different from the rest of the wine.

I just decant the bottle very carefully and toss that last ounce of wine down the sink. It’s a lot of extra effort to try to save one ounce of wine that is never as good as the rest of the bottle. If you need more wine, open another bottle .

ChrisL · February 2, 2021, 5:31pm

I see a main reason is to get rid of sediment, do any of you use a funnel/strainer combo that I’ve seen around? Are those taboo/forbidden? Seems like it solves the sediment aspect
Edit: something like the attached picture

That strainer is good for cork but not fine enough for sediment.

When I decant to remove sediment I use a rabbit strainer/funnel in my pitcher with the strainer removed. I put the strainer in a tasting glass just to one side. I try to avoid is stirring up the sediment by tipping and untipping the bottle, so as soon as I think the sediment is close to reaching the bottle neck I move over to the glass and pour the last ounce or two thru the fine strainer screen. The fine mesh screen still isn’t enough to eliminate all the sediment, and the character of that final pour is noticeably different from the rest of the wine.

I just decant the bottle very carefully and toss that last ounce of wine down the sink. It’s a lot of extra effort to try to save one ounce of wine that is never as good as the rest of the bottle. If you need more wine, open another bottle .

Chris & Marshall, very helpful! Makes sense. Was thinking about buying one of those strainer things but it seems to be not needed.

Alan_Rath · February 2, 2021, 5:52pm

Yes, when it’s just sitting there. But pouring into a secondary vessel of any kind (I use just another empty wine bottle) is splash decanting. So you’re getting that effect twice, as you decant out, and back in again.

If you do choose to use a decanter, the lesson from my post is that you should swirl it around every now and then. Just letting it sit there accomplishes very little. The point I was trying to make is that once you decant back into the bottle, the effect of any exposure to air is done, you won’t get any more than what it just experienced in the two splash decants.

Alan_Rath · February 2, 2021, 5:54pm

They should call it Roundtine.

Alan_Rath · February 2, 2021, 6:02pm

I have had the experience twice of a restaurant being resistant to allowing a previously opened bottle. Once was in your neck of the woods, at the old Mirepoix in Windsor. They finally relented, but claimed some legality. I suspect it’s that a place without a full spirits license can’t guarantee what’s in the bottle if it comes in already opened.