What's the Best top end non-DRC red Burgundy?

[Gerhard_P]

I don’t know. He asked me about Domaine Lamarche Grand Rue GC instead of unspecified DRC, which I knew nothing about, so we agreed to ask the question in the form I posed it.

I wouldn´t take La Grande Rue … it can be quite good, but no match for a lot of other wines …

I could second:
Rousseau Chambertin or Clos de Beze (but please a vintage close to maturity, maybe 1990 or 1991)
Mugnier Musigny (1999 or 2002)
Dujac (CDLR or CSD) 1990/91 or 1999
Cathiard RSV (2002 !)
Rouget Cros Parantoux (1999, 2001, 2002)
La Romanee (Liger-Belair) 2002 … or 2007 (great now!), or Vosne “Aux Reignots” 2002/05/07
Leroy - why not Vosne Les Beaux-Monts 1992 !
Hudelot-Noellat Richebourg 1991 (!)
Ponsot Clos de la Roche 2002 (!)
…

[Anton_D]

domaine serene out of oregon. it beat out drc multiple times

Marcassin pinot noir. It is DRC. Ask Michael Boradbent!

[Howard_Cooper]

Truchot Clos de la Roche
Mugneret-Gibourg Echezeaux
Hudelot-Noellat Richebourg (richer) or Romanee St. Vivant (more seductive)
Ponsot Clos de la Roche
Musigny by Roumier, Mugnier or Drouhin

[Mike_Grammer]

. . . you might try . . .

Do I look stupid? Don’t answer that. I said I was asking for a friend and I really meant it. He’s general counsel of a financial institution many of you have heard of. his wife, on the other hand, is more sensible and loves Saxum.

in that case, start him off with fourrier

No, no, get some pricing, have him pay you, THEN get the Fourrier and buy some good stuff with the rest

Cecile Tremblay’s Echezeaux? I thought about mentioning the Ponsot.

[Kelly_Walker]

Does your friend have experience with quality red Burgundy? If not he has no reference point. Maybe better to recommend a really good Burgundy and a great Burgundy. Then maybe he can experience “what all the fuss is about.”

[R_Frankel]

I think this is a perfectly reasonable question. My only issue is lack of clarity around how much the friend wants to spend. DRC (other than RC) is $1500 (Echezeaux in a lesser vintage) to $5k+ (La Tache in a good vintage) and beyond. Roughly. Most of the suggest here are in the $1500-$3000 range.

So what’s the friend’s budget?

[Joshua_Kates]

Suzanne - What was that Richebourg you gave me in Chicago?

that was a magnum of 2000 Denis Mugneret Richebourg- he’s not a player.

adding the Mugneret Gibourg Ruchottes as a generally great bottle of burgundy

Of course, you’re right Suzanne, but I think Denis’ Richebourgs are the real deal, though I like them with a bit more age–the '98 was a beauty and I have a few '95’s I’m holding. This would be the way I would go for Jay’s “friend” (just kidding, Jay). I would score some GC’s, preferably from the 90’s, 90, 91, 93, but 96 or 98 can work from solid producers, but not the over the top ones here mentioned, running approx $150-350: Jadot, Laurent, G. Lignier, D. Mugneret are all possibilities: Bonnes Mares (had a '98 from Laurent recently that was over the top good), or Clos St Denis (G. Lignier comes to mind); Jadot’s Clos St Jacques would also the be in there. None of these are DRC, of which I have only ever had dribs and drabs, or Leroy, but I think the difference a great red Burgundy cru makes really comes through in these wines, if well-stored, ready to go, etc. Not like any other wine I’ve ever tasted…so, yeah, I’ve got the bug

[alan_weinberg]

M-M makes a less costly excellent Richebourg. Or maybe a Ponsot Clos de la Roche?

[M_Dildine]

not to be Nathan here, but many of the wines mentioned are as stupidly priced as DRC now is. I got an offer for 99 Roumier Bonnes Mares today for $4000 per bottle. I paid about $110 on release.

If I were buying: Arnoux Suchots. Grand cru quality.

I’d like to see price tags attached to these recommendations. What does top-end GC Burgundy cost these days?

[Mark_Golodetz]

La Grande Rue is around $400; if that is the guide there are plenty of premier crus and a few good grand cru options. I would look at Trapet as a serious overachiever.

[Nathan_Smyth]

Musigny by Roumier

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[alan_weinberg]

Musigny by Roumier

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there’s an argument to make that Roumier’s Musigny is not his best wine. He makes just one barrel and hence can’t do a rigorous selection like he can with his BM.

[Yao_C]

Musigny by Roumier

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there’s an argument to make that Roumier’s Musigny is not his best wine. He makes just one barrel and hence can’t do a rigorous selection like he can with his BM.

My memory might be faulty but I recall an old thread where something similar was said about Mugnier Musigny vs Amoureuses. Any thoughts?

[Eric_Lundblad]

The above arguments, and other thoughts, make me thing that a 95, 96, 99 or 00 Rousseau Clos St Jacques would be an excellent choice for this exercise, despite the fact that is, by definition, doesn’t qualify (a 1er cru couldn’t be the best top end non-DRC red Burgundy). I’m saying this because, in part, at this level, it’s about great bottles, not great wines, and I think Rousseau has a better record on this than most other producers…and Clos St Jacuques is the vineyard that they’ve done the most to stick their neck out about, and would ensure it shows as it should. And, and the end of the day, tasting a great vineyard, from a vintage that’s showing well now, is what I want. There are other interesting examples of this tho.

[Gerhard_P]

there’s an argument to make that Roumier’s Musigny is not his best wine. He makes just one barrel and hence can’t do a rigorous selection like he can with his BM.

My memory might be faulty but I recall an old thread where something similar was said about Mugnier Musigny vs Amoureuses. Any thoughts?

Mugnier´s Musigny is always above his Amoureuses, the latter is definitely lighter and less intense, although beautifully perfumed, the M. has the extra stuffings for a real great GC.
One can discuss if Mugnier´s Bonnes-Mares is better than his Fuées … in BM there is a less than ideal clone …

[Howard_Cooper]

If someone wants to try a top of the line red burgundy at a ridiculous price to see what all the fuss is about but doesn’t want to pay the DRC ticket, what producer should he look at? Asking for a friend. Really!

What do you mean by the DRC ticket? Any DRC or just the Romanee Conti?

I don’t know. He asked me about Domaine Lamarche Grand Rue GC instead of unspecified DRC, which I knew nothing about, so we agreed to ask the question in the form I posed it.

Jay, without price parameters, we are all guessing at what is wanted. I would not think of Grand Rue as a “top of the line” red Burgundy as my guess is one could find better Burgundies for less money. If he wants something from VR that is less expensive than Romanee Conti or la Tache, I first choice would be a Romanee St. Vivant, which has some of the great perfume that makes VR wines so special. If those are too expensive, you might have him look for one of the better Vosne Romanee Premier Crus like Malconsort, Suchots, Beau Monts or Petits Monts. If that is still too much, Hudelot-Noellat makes a beautiful villages level VR at about $60-70 depending on vintage.

But, if he wants great wine that is rare at a very inflated price, try anything by Truchot. Thankfully I bought these way before prices started going up.

[jcjouas]

If someone wants to try a top of the line red burgundy at a ridiculous price to see what all the fuss is about but doesn’t want to pay the DRC ticket, what producer should he look at? Asking for a friend. Really!

What do you mean by the DRC ticket? Any DRC or just the Romanee Conti?

I don’t know. He asked me about Domaine Lamarche Grand Rue GC instead of unspecified DRC, which I knew nothing about, so we agreed to ask the question in the form I posed it.

I think that when it comes to Posner offerings, you or rather your friend should buy blindly

[Gerhard_P]

M-M makes a less costly excellent Richebourg. Or maybe a Ponsot Clos de la Roche?

When considering Mongeard-Mugneret (I think that´s M-M) I would rather buy the Grands-Echezeaux …
often the better wine - and less expensive than the Rb.

[Jayson_Cohen]

There can be only one: Rousseau Chambertin.

[Kirk.Grant]

You’re all fools…

Carlo Rossi Burgundy is unlike any other.