What's on the "No Fly" List

WINE TALK
21

Pretty sure EMH would fall in the “board darling” list instead… [wow.gif]

22

Wines I have seen written off by category alone, some of which I agree with:

It is uncool to like:

Australia, Canada, New York, New Zealand (even Otago!), Chateauneuf du Pape in a ripe vintage, 2003 and 2004 red Burgundy, any white Burgundy pre-2005, Tuscans made with Bordeaux varieties, all old wines, all young wines, new Napa cabernets trying to be cult, established Napa cult cabernets, all California wines south of Santa Clara County, wineries that have lost or changed grape sources (Gaja normale, Veuve Clicquot, any winery that sold its name to a corporation but kept the grapes), any wine really popular in restaurants and restaurant bars, wines perceived to be manipulated, wines from wineries perceived to be cynical like Caymus post-1994, wineries that pride themselves on poor customer service, Kevin Harvey because he won’t sell me a case of Swan Terrace every year at case discount prices, the wine brought to an offline that cost one fifth as much as every other wine and the guy who brought it brags that it will be the best wine there and it’s awful, pinot noir from hot regions like Napa, any wine I can’t afford, any wine that I can’t access at cellar door so have to pay triple for it.

23

Don’t laugh, I’d venture that every wine maker who is a board member reads thus thread multiple times.

24

Excellent. Keep them coming. Merrill, just trying to have a little fun and pick up some knowledge at the same time. I always make my own decisions about taste and I’m sure I’ll like (or already do like) something that someone puts on the list. George Chadwick: Awesome, love the response. I especially like “any wine really popular in restaurants…” That actually covers a lot of the specific responses like Prisoner and Meomi and Rombauer.

I think I may use this thread to put together a blind tasting of the No Fly wines and Board Darling wines (like Bedrock, Carlisle, Myriad, Rhys etc.) with some wine savvy friends and see where everyone (including me) ends up. I bet at least one of the No Flys does well and one of the Darlings does not.

25

That would be an awesome tasting.

26

Hi Bruce. I am going to push back on you for that comment…just a bit. If you check, you will see I post on football, baseball, food, offlines, travel, what-are-you-listening to. Oh yes, and wine! I am not a fly-by.

But to your point, of course I would be concerned to find EMH Black Cat on anyone’s list. Horrified, to be exact. Not everyone has to love my wine, or even like it. If they were to ever find it to be so horrible that it would be on this list, I would ask them to get in touch with me, and I will refund their money. It’s that simple.

This is a very personal venture - I have no partners, no one working for me, and I work for no one. I grow it, make it, sell it. So yes, it would hurt to find it on a list like this. But of course, it is anyone’s right to place it here. I recognize that.

27

And Cali wines that taste like French (not Todd - those are popular)

28

Orin Swift has been on my most-loathed list for some time now.
Silver Oak.
Juan Gil 18 Meses is just horrid.
Cliquot Yellow Label.

29

Sean - don’t take my comment personally. It’s an interesting thread. Gutsy. Pointed. And it gives people a place to talk about one or more aspects of wine - go for it! But the crew around here can be very, very tough - agreed?

And for the record, I would love to run to the bank with the profits realized by Rombauer, The Wagner Family (Caymus, et al), Silver Oak, and others. I also would like to be able to give the amounts of money they give to charity - particularly to those in need in Napa Valley.

Ok, now I have been nice. I dislike some of the wines entered here by others. Another board member witnessed me dumping an entire bottle of non-flawed wine (from this list) down the sink the other day. And no, I won’t say which one it was. Actually there were 2, but only one from this list. I have also sent back to the bartender glasses of some of the wines listed here, as I found them unpalatable.

Carry on [cheers.gif]

30

Well once I get my shipment that I purchased on Berserker Day and give your wines a try, we will see if it’s up my alley. And based on what I read here, I can’t imagine your wine will end up on the list.

31

I am with you, brother.

Agree with Todd about Rombauer, as well.

32

Kistler and Aubert.

33

Merrill: A really interesting response for a couple reasons. Yes, the crew can be very tough, some politely and some less so. Your point about profits is a good one; to make this list, a wine almost has to be widespread (and thus likely profitable if the producer knows their business). If it wasn’t distributed widely enough to get hated, it wouldn’t engender the kind of response that these wines do. If you made the exact wine that is Caymus 40th by growing, picking, making and selling it all yourself, it would still never make this list. People would likely not like it as much as your Black Cat, but they would appreciate the effort and either not comment or just say it’s not to their taste. In fact, I would bet that your Black Cat would be slightly less well received here if you sold 100,000 cases of it annually. I wish I could say that I am 100% influenced only by my senses, but I can tell you that, non-blind, I’m going to want to like something like Becklyn or EMH or Keating more than I’m going to want to like something from a bigger producer like Nickel and Nickel or Mondavi. And even if that influences my final verdict in some way, I think that’s ultimately a good thing. As for running to the bank with the profits, would you rather make Rombauer Chard (and only that) and run to the bank with those profits, or make your wine your way, and make what you make? I have a guess…

34

Maison Ilan
(hypothetically speaking of course)


+1 on nearly every wine mentioned in this thread.

35

Hi Sean, long time no see. I think your tasting would be a fun idea. Let me know if you put it together, I would even drive across town. But as you say, for some of these wines, its the principle and not only what is in the bottle. Different strokes for different folks, and so on and so forth…

For the record, I have liked The Prisoner, Silver Oak, Caymus 40th and Maison Ilan. I am not saying they are worth the money (or not) or I would drink them all the time, but I enjoyed them.

36

And French wines that taste like Cali -

37

Most would disagree. Not to your liking but clearly more than just drinkable.

38

Any Belle Glos pinot.

39

Have not liked any Caymus I have tried. I have enjoyed a few Silver Oaks though.

40

Kosta Brown. A favorite of some I know. I’ve tried them young and older. Single vineyard and Sonoma blends. Was really excited with all the initial rave reviews. Not a single one floated my boat.