What's a fair offer on a 6L bottle of 1982 Mouton?

A restaurant has a bottle of this for $16k. I would not buy it at this price but thought of making an offer of 12k. The wine has been in the restaurant’s cellar since release and condition is excellent (it is an old restaurant with a deep cellar). What do you say?

04/10 Sotheby’s, Hong Kong 6.0L $21,801.78
10/09 Sotheby’s, Hong Kong 6.0L $31,218.00

In the US auction market, the wine is holding fairly steady at just under $1,500 per all in for case lots. Magnums just over $3,000 each generally.

In February, Acker sold a Jeroboam for $8,540- and in April 2009 an Imperial for $7,865 (though remember in April 2009 the market was still extremely soft.) These are US results- most of the big bottles like this find their way to Hong Kong these days and sell for the kinds of prices Andy is referencing. So that must be taken into account- both the rarity of US availability and true global pricing.

The real key here is that by your own account there is absolute assurance here of outstanding provenance. For any 1982-1990 Bordeaux, especially one as heavily traded as 1982 Mouton, this is worth a very hefty premium.

$12,000 for the imperial, working out to the equivalent of $1,500 a bottle, is a reasonable offer and if accepted I think you make out very good here. They do well too since they avoid selling costs to go to auction plus the wait time for the money. It would be a good outcome all around.

But if you really want that bottle, my advice would be go to $15,000- or even the full $16,000 if your first offer is declined. It is all about the provenance, and even at $16,000 this would be a reasonable deal.

Are you buying it to drink?

As someone who does not like it when other question you about the embarrassment of riches at some (well, all…) of your parties, don’t you think that
questioning the buyer’s intentions is somewhat hypocritical?

Not sure how you came up with this correlation but I would think that the answer to your question is obvious. But, I guess I’m wrong.

Otto asked what he should offer for the wine. If his plan is to consume the imperial then my answer is one number. If he plans on immediately selling it at auction or via another vehicle than my answer is a different number. If he plans on holding it long-term and then selling it I would suggest a third number.

the brevity of the post made me think that you were bringing up the
“buy to drink vs buy to resell” argument. I’m sorry if I read that wrong…

Unlike some others I don’t think there is anything wrong with buying wine to resell for a profit whether short or long term. I have done both. You misjudged the brevity of my post.

Getting back to the original topic, I have had Mouton 1982 from magnum, dm and jero. The wines were incredible, and since I have noticed slight bottle variation with the 750 bottles (including a half dozen supplied by the chateau at a Vinexpo dinner) I would say that if you can get the wine in large format,based on the bottle price, you will have done very well.

Otto - if you plan on selling it, I’d be happy to go halfsies with you!

If you plan on drinking it, we’ll schedule a Berserkerfest around it!

Good point. My number was based on if he plans to drink. If this is a short or long term investment, then I say $8K unless he is already sending a big parcel to Hong Kong and could add this in. The price differential in the HK vs US auction market, and the entry level required to sell a collection over there makes this a bad buy for standalone investment purposes in the near term. In the long term bad too since wine does not compare well with more traditional investments. Short term flips are the only guaranteed returns worth the risk.

Thanks for your replys folks. I left my business card with an offer of $8k for the owner to decide. Yes, I wanted to get the wine for short term flip, though if the profit was not good enough, I would keep it for my 50th. You guys helped as I believe the 12k offer would have put me in the corner of drinking the wine, and I like to keep my options open.

Chances are that if I get the wine at my price, the price will plummet, should be no different from my stock portfolio. You know, buy high sell low.

Not that I have any business talking about an '82 Mouton, but I hope for your sake that the restauranter does not lurk here.

Since I am coming to San Diego next summer, I know the perfect time to open it! grouphug