And Jeb rates 31 wines 100 / perfect in part 1 of his Napa report and 155 with a 98 or above. I like Jeb but i am not renewing my subscription. jumped the shark a bit
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I agree, the scores have become Suckling Jr for all intents and purposes.
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I am a huge proponent of blind tasting and strongly feel it removes label bias. I use it as “let’s see if I actually like this” more than identifying a wine. To your point, I’ve seen 100pt wines get blasted by $40 bottles. Not the norm but it does happen.
Personally, I find fairly obvious differences between Rutherford and Mount Veeder. Similarly, Coombsville and Oakville are not interchangeable. Blind tasting has accentuated those differences for me.
Another point (or a personal gripe) is preparation before a dinner/tasting. All too often I see someone pop and pour a 20yo wine with sediment flying everywhere and no chance to breathe. No way a wine will show its best like that.
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I don’t think it’s hard to distinguish different Napa Cabs from one another blind, even when it’s the same winemaker or producer and when they’re all modern styled, and I’m surprised there are experienced wine enthusiasts who disagree. Having said that, I do think there are so many modern styled Napa Cabs are similar enough, or at least have similar enough strengths, that it’s not hard to find a suitable substitute for ton of those wines. If you make the prototypical big, ripe, polished, modern Napa Cab and you keep raising the prices, it’s often not hard for me to find a less expensive bottle that scratches the same itch. I also find it interesting that the producers who do seem to make something that really stands out against most of the Napa Cabs bring produced today (e.g., Beta, Jasud, Tidings, etc.) often seem to be the ones who price their wines much lower.
EDIT: I accidentally posted this as a reply to Tyler, but it’s supposed to be a general response to the thread.
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What does not tell them apart mean the colgin from the scarecrow etc? I couldn t either but i could tell the difference the suttle differences between each the name on the bottle is significant when u uncover the blind no reason to guess the name on the bottle or if its a cabernet or anything else You should be able to easily taste the difference from well made stags leap and a spring mountain fruit cabernet and other differences
It seems to me that we may be really getting into the discussion napa versus bordeaux thats a seperate discussion
I drink both and find qualities in both i enjoy
I enjoy my red and blue period picassos in my dinning room equally but for different reasons
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I appreciate you mention some alternate choices. May I ask their pricing?
Back to the topic.
When there were 6-8 Cult Cabs, there were few to go around and one could flip the wines for even money if not more, sometimes significantly more. Now that there are dozens made in the same modern style that garner💯 from some Tom, Dick, or Harriet, one can often find these wines in the secondary market for less, sometimes significantly less, than the original DTC price.
Now and for some time, if one purchases these wines and doesn’t like them, they often can’t be sold in the secondary marketplace (and I don’t mean Commerce Corner) for the amount paid from the winery.
I attribute at least some of this change in value to the plethora of Cabs/blends made in the modern style. They are no longer unique to a handful of wineries. And they all get big points from someone.
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I think listening to buffet is the best advice i ever got over the long term just be in the s and p there is always asset modulation being the tourtise seems to work cant time the market this is most likely a blip in the market as far as pricing goes Some wineries may even dissolve there will always be someone to buy and wine to drink
Wide labels fat ties and suits may even come back into style like parker cabs who is to tell
Just enjoy the grapes
If one bought the few out of the thousands of truly investement wine then your run has been as good or better than the market Me i buy to drink and learn not for investment
Do you mean pricing for the wines that aren’t especially modern-styled?
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I think it’s just market regulating itself - like concert tickets
Back in the day I could buy tickets for 30 and sell for 100 to a hot show. Was all Craigslist and other “out of sight” marketplaces. Along came StubHub and pricing / availability was way more transparent and the promoters got wise and said if people will pay 100 on the secondary market let me charge 100 on the release of the tickets as that is what the market will bear. And now for a large majority of shows you can get tickets at or below face value for events especially when the date of the event is closing in
I haven’t been around the wine world long enough nor do I buy “cult” wines but I’m sure the proliferation of online auctions like winebid and sites like benchmark show the wineries the secondary pricing so they just raise their prices to capture that money themselves. And the market won’t bear much higher secondary pricing and now “flipping” isn’t what it used to be
This doesn’t answer why new unproven labels try to release 300/bottle releases but that’s another case study in marketing I suppose
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Continuing the discussion from What’s going on with Napa? Questions and concerns:
I read somewhere recently that certain very large vineyard owners in Napa are requiring release prices of $200-300 per bottle on contracts for their grapes.
If so, that might explain some of these asking prices, especially for eager newbies trying to get attention in the glamour wine biz.
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Not to be pedantic, but the Tidings and much of the Beta lineup are Sonoma, rather than Napa, cabernets.
There’s an ocean of very similar Napa cab being produced, and a large number of wines that are certainly unique and stand on their own.
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That’s a good point, even though some Beta and Jasud is Napa.
That is true
i assume most of us are aware of these and stay clear of them I believe this site to be full of one percenters not the other 99 that drink within 12 hours of purchase
a common thread here one percenters
Lot of work seperating the wheat from the shaft
Thank u all for so much help in introducing me to some more wheat
Cant try them all
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I remember reading an older article that mentioned Beckstoffer did this for To Kalon. I’m sure other top vineyards have adopted a similar practice.
I just don’t know how sustainable all this is.
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All of his vineyards AFAIK, though different price per vineyard. He also requires you put “Beckstoffer [Vineyard Name]” on the label as well.
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Less chewing and more talking Larry! What’s your thoughts?
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“I’m just asking questions. I have no position.” 
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I find the entire conversation very interesting. I do not have enough experience with modern Napa cabs to be able to add much, other than that the majority of ‘modern’ style cabs I’ve had over the past decade have not been as memorable as I’d hoped they would be based on ratings and what others have said on WB.
Were they ‘identical’? No - but they were more similar to each other than truly ‘distinctive’, just as I find many ‘modern’ Russian River Pinots to be, or many Paso red blends. And again, these are really ‘generalizations’ and not meant to be negative of any specific winery.
Are there exceptions? Of course there are - but we are talking generalities here . . .
Cheers
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