Quick question - are all of these vineyards you mentioned at $10k+/ton being farmed to minimize yields - ie yields that are under 2 tons/acre? In most cases, are winemakers invoived with the farming decisions at those prices or do you need to ramp up tremendously from there? With vineyards like To Kalon, do you have any input into farming or is it all handled by Beckstoffer?
I’m really still trying to understand the economics here . . .
Cheers
98 pts Jeb
$250 . . .
Thanks for clarification. Knew it was a bit more at the choice vineyards, but didn’t know it could go above $30K unless it was pretty much To Kalon. Wow.
That said, I was up the other day at Kongsgaard on Atlas Peak and the views alone would almost make it worth paying $30K per ton (if he had any)…but, just down the hill, less than half a mile away, Solano County starts and there you can prob get Cab for $2K/ton. Which puts it in perspective.
I think the 2 tons per acre thing is a little bit from the past. I don’t see that emphasis as strong anymore. I have been told sleeping lady in Yountville has blocks where they are getting around 5 tons/acre and the bettinelli’s know how to farm for quality… After tons of trials and experiments, have consistently proven they can provide top quality at higher tonnage.
As for farming decisions, always going to depend on whether they are tonnage contracts or acreage contracts. i really dont know how much input a buyer has…
Certainly this is how it pencils out in France.
Anyone who is making only 50 cases, i.e. two barrels, with one ton of fruit is discarding the better part of a barrel of production at sorting and/or pressing, and/or by tank bleeds/concentrating.
And that is assuming zero water add.
Or the fruit is just atypically desiccated compared to other wine regions.
Something I meant to mention above is that there are much fewer plants per hectare (or acre) than there is in Europe. I was assuming that was part of the difference.
The ratio kg:hl shouldn’t be affected by planting density…
Though it would affect hl:hectare/acre of course!
no one owns their grapes, game over 
In most modern vineyards in Napa I don’t believe the two tons/acre figure AT ALL. The other thing is with the super racy style that many…but not all, are after fruit is being picked around 27-28 brix. There’s not as much liquid in them there grapes at those levels, and I’d say 40 cases/ton would be a decent guess.
What percentage would you guess are picking that high?
Late to this conversation but we source fruit from some of the well-known growers and vineyards mentioned in this thread.
Our winemaker works with the growers and we do make decisions that impact how much and what quality we harvest (pruning back to only two shoots, how many passes through the vineyard, how many clusters we want dropped). Of course we make the call on when we are picking too. Cheers.
I have been told that anything with Beckstoffer fruit cannot be sold for under $300/bottle. When a lot of Napa is sourcing from the same single vineyards and they are all same price, I do feel that they all start to taste pretty similar and it’s quite sad that a $300 bottle of wine has become somewhat homogenized.
I think LPV and GIII taste way different from each other, plus the other vineyards.
I enjoy quite a few MH wines, but not a large enough sample size. Dr. Crane in general just isn’t my still.
BTK is a whole other beast. Due to the size of the vineyard, I do see large quality swings. Those closer to the mountains I tend to prefer more than those closer to 29.
Another observation in terms of the Napa price discussion that I also made in the “Myriad” thread. Myriad released Dr. Crane Elysian in 2018 and 2019 at around 185$. Those wines sold out within hours on the initial day of release. I believe my allocation was also 3 bottles at the time. The 2021s that were just released on 1/9 at $295 are still available right now. My allocation also jumped up to 6 bottles.
Perhaps production is also up substantially since the 2019 vintage. But I still find it interesting.
Another example was Carter Cellars. In 2018 a lot of the wines sold out quickly and OG (ToKalon) and the Las Piedras offerings sold out in hours. Just visited Carters site and most of the wines are still available. That includes both the OG and Las Piedras. Price is up to $250 from $195 in 2019.
I’m not sure this is emblematic of Napa at large, so much as you can’t raise the price of a wine by a huge percentage a bottle and expect people to have the same desire to own the wine. (or 25% in the case of Carter)
Yes I meant of each single vineyard bottling. Each cult producer sourcing from each beckstoffer vineyard… the wine makers are all making from the same vineyards and contractually have to sell for 300+. Yes To Kalon is massive and varies with quality, and each vineyard has its own blocks with distinctive characteristics. One 2021 Dr Crane bottling was one of the most profound bottles of wine Ive had this yr (and intend to go deep on ordering 9 bottles of), and it seems like JD and LPB in particular have loved the 2021s out of Dr Crane and i would have to agree. But doesnt change the fact that each of these wine makers making from the same vineyards charging the same very high price are putting out very similar juice…
Maybe I’m missing something but I’ve bought a few Beckstoffer wines (current vintage) from multiple producers for well less than $300. Are you implying that they’re all selling these at a loss or are you just referencing a specific vineyard like Dr. Crane?
My current offering for 2022 Myriad Dr. Crane and To Kalon is at $250 and $275 respectively so I don’t think $300 per bottle is the current hard price from Andy. Current release of 2021 Carters are $250 each as well for BTK. Many Missouri Hopper, Bourn, and George’s III bottlings can be had for $250 and under. 2021 Fait Main Beckstoffer Missouri Hopper was offered at $175 as is the 2021 Carter Missouri Hopper.
Maybe that is true for 2023 vintage onward but doesn’t seem to be the case for 21s.