What is your typical anticipation for drinking older wines?

WINE TALK
1

What is your typical anticipation for drinking 15yr and older wines? ( Choose what best fits)

  • 1. Wary of btls with 15yrs plus as more disapoint then live up to the hype.
  • 2. Eager as most are facinating and worth the 15 yrs plus of btl aging.
  • 3. Willing and interested as there is at least an equal chance for greatness as there is dispointment.
  • 4. I prefer my wines fresher and more vibrant having between 10 -15 years of btl age.
  • 5. I aim to drink only btls with 15yrs plus btl age minimum.
  • 6. You can have consistently great btls with 15yrs plus btl age if you source & store them properly.
  • 7. I prefer younger wines under 10yrs of btl age.
  • 8. I don’t enjoy wines under 15yrs of age.
  • 9. N/A, explain

0 voters

I know most people get really excited but I always feel a bit wary and full of intrepidation. Maybe it’s because few of the older wines I’ve had have been in the same cellar for 15, 20 or 30 plus years before being opened. Most have been picked up from a trusted retailer or auction house by one of my wine pals. I’ve never gone on an auction site or got excited about buying an older wine because most the ones I’ve tasted have been minor to major let downs. There have been a couple exceptions like a beautiful '61 La Mission Haut Brion that seemed like it was 10yrs old but awesome and a 68? Unico that was also unbelievably youthful. There might be one or 2 more btls I’ve forgotten but most have felt either slightly or significantlly over the hill for my liking. Yes, the nose on occassion was magical but the palale was often tired, roasted or otherwise semi wierd. This makes me wonder about the merits of hanging onto my btls till their 20yrs plus. Right now, I have a 96 Leoville Barton that I sourced on release that I’d love to open but everyone says wait annother 5 - 10yrs. Now if I had started collecting when I was 35 instead of 44 maybe I’d feel differently as my cellar would be full of well aged wines with great provenance. Now I’m solidly 57 and the clock is ticking. How about you?

2

Hi Craig,

I find the question impossible to answer as stated.

Doesn’t it depend entirely on the type of wine itself? I really like older wines, and am wary of, for example, mid to upper level burgs with fewer than 10 - 15 years on them. I like my bx to be in the late sweet spot. Many sangiovese wines are much to my liking with decades on them.

YMMV

3

Fun poll Craig
For me it depends on the region/varietal
I like Bordeaux old, but have to depend on the generosity of friends. I like Burgundy old too, although I am having trouble with self discipline.
I like Southern Rhone and Napa on the young side
I like Northern Rhone old.
On whites, I love aged white Burg but am afraid of the monster
I also prefer Riesling and Chenin with age.

Maybe I need therapy [cheers.gif]

4

My issue with older wines might be addressed if more of them had come directly from a cold cellar where they have resided for the past 15yrs plus. Most of the wines I’ve tasted have come from variable retail sources or auction houses where they may have likely changed hands a couple time before. Thinking back though I also remember some very nice auction house sourced Vieux Telegraphes and Beaucastels from the 80s and 90s. So, I’m contradicting myself, a little bit anyhow :slight_smile:. I think, the recent late 70s BDXs that didn’t wow me came from longterm storage in passive cellars. So, provenance could easily play a role in my experience.

5

By the way, the poll is multiple choice if you want to select more options, feel free.

6

Really depends on the wine.

And the vintage.

Speaking very generally, for red wines, a Rioja Reserva or GR is good any time after release. I’ve never had one that was over the hill, and I’ve had some going back 80 years. There is no longer-lived wine. I expect them to be good for at least as long as a human lifetime. From elsewhere in Spain, I don’t think you can find a wine from anywhere that lives as long and as well as Vega Sicilia Unico. It’s the single wine that never disappoints.

Barolo/Barbaresco needs time to be palatable, but then they live pretty much forever, or at least for a human lifetime. As with Rioja, I’m never worried if confronted with an old bottle. I simply assume it’s going to be good.

Burgundy can live, and the occasional older bottle is really great, but I just don’t drink enough to know one way or another. Generally I’m underwhelmed, but I don’t think that has anything to do with age so much as with Pinot Noir in general.

With Bordeaux, I think you start coming to wine that declines in a human lifetime, and some of the older ones I’ve had just weren’t all that good any more. The best older ones I’ve had seem to peak around 40 years, after which there’s a slow decline. Just from my experience - I’m not sure how far to extrapolate that but it’s what I anticipate.

Sangiovese is a crapshoot. Some of them seem to be wonderful at 40 years and more, but in general I drink them earlier - I’ve had some Chiantis from the 1980s that are quite disappointing at 20 years.

N. Rhones seem like they want to be about 20 - 30 years old to show best. If they’re older, I often worry. However, in the case of those and of the Tuscan wines, I’m wondering if it’s not so much a characteristic of the wine as it is of the winemaking at the time. In other words, a lot of those were kind of dirty and that may have had an impact on the lifespan? Don’t really know.

Cali Cabs and Merlots can age, depending on the producer. Some just crap out fast. But much more than 20 years and I worry that they’ll be dead. Some are OK to keep, but in general, I worry a bit if they’re over 20 years. And they’re also good young, so that’s another reason not to keep them too long.

S. Rhones are just better young IMO. I don’t know that I really care to age them. I guess they’re OK for 10 years, but I never expect them to be better with time.

A few Australian reds have been surprising - they actually became more interesting with time. I’ve not had many, or any, older than 20 years though as far as I can remember.

For Zins and most other reds, I don’t anticipate anything really. I’m just curious. Sometimes I’m happy, sometimes not so much, but since I’ve had fewer of those with age than I’ve had Spanish or Italian wines, I never know what to expect.

But its kind of funny that you picked 15 years because other than the $15 Cotes du Rhones and things like that, 15 years is where I start thinking it’s time to start drinking the “better” wines.

7

I chose numbers two and three as I’m always eager though I know disappointment is quite possible.

8

I answered #6 for my favorite regions: Bordeaux and Rhone, which I generally like best at >15 years (Bdx) or > 8-10 years (Rhone). I don’t get the same sort of effect from aging most Cali wines, so I tend to drink them within 10-15 years, though I’m in no hurry to do so with most good quality cabs.

9

If you choose wines which won’t just survive 15 years, but actually needs some time to become more enjoyable, then your odds are usually pretty good.

10

I like Greg’s answer: it really depends on the wine. I think us geeks have made a wine’s age sort of a Holy Grail issue: we must wait for “the perfect moment” to arrive to open our treasured bottle to open at absolute peak. Some (and many of the wines we buy) wines need age…but many don’t, or will drink fine throughout an expected bottle-life. Some close up and can be maddening to open at the in-between stages, sort of like trying to coax flowers in winter. Others just seem to never come around, and we make excuses about provenance, tannins, concentration, etc. This being said, I tend to like Northern Rhones with 12+ years on them, Bordeaux with at least 10, nebbiolo seems to be made to drink younger these days and I’ll pop them even at 5-6 years for all but the most extracted vintages, Burgundy really depends on the vintage. So, I guess I don’t really follow your ‘rule of 15’ any more than I follow any other rule.

11

Not sure exactly what this poll/thread is asking. Of course, it depends on the nature of the wine. But, I’ve almost never (maybe never) had a red Burgundy at 15 or over that I thought was compromised due to its age (and I don’t buy wines on the secondary market, so I know where they’ve been). Like Henry , I am skeptical of any Burgundy with less than 10-15 years of age’s ability to really show why it’s special. I am surprised to feel that way, but in recent years, have felt that almost all red Burgs can and do age and improve for a minimum of 20 years…and in the more concentrated vintages require that time a bare minimum to evolve from their primary states. Even at 25, most don’t seem particularly “old” to me; certainly not at 15-20…

These feelings, by the way, caused me to stop buying wine after the 2005 vintage…my age and the aging I began to realize was necessary to allow my red Burgs to evolve into something special said “stop” if you want to be around to enjoy them.

12

Stuart, have you stopped even buying village wines? I’m 57 and not planning ot buy any Grand Crus. I have only bought a few 08/ 09 1er Crus but, I’ll likely keep buying village level Burgs.

13

Yes…everything. I’m not sure of your reasoning, Craig. But, for me villages wines don’t require any less time to be “mature”. They just might rise to less high heights when mature and cost less. I consume them earlier at times because I am willing to sacrifice villages wines to check in on any given producer/vintage because they are less precious, not because they are “ready” any earlier…

I’ve always bought accross the board as much as possible in vintages and with producers I had access to…bourgogne/villages to grand cru. To buy only villages would serve no purpose of mine, intellectually or collection-wise…or timeline wise. And, it would be unsatisfying to me as a compromise in any event.

14

[cheers.gif] We tend to drink older wines, since we have a temperature-controlled cellar.

15

We can never know about the days to come
But we think about them anyway
And I wonder if I’m really with you now
Or just chasing after some finer day.

Anticipation, anticipation
Is making me late
Is keeping me waiting

  • Carly Simon, 1972
16

As already stated, it really depends upon the wine. Since I drink a lot of Champagne, Im looking to taste some early on and then lay them down and go for the 15-25 year aging window. For the CA Pinots, for the most part, Im looking at 6-10 years of age before opening. For red Burgs, usually I go 15-20 years, but recently, Ive been opening many in their youth as Im doing for almost all white Burgs.

Although I drink a lot of wines outside of the aforementioned. 80% of my cellar is covered by my earlier remarks.

17

Remember ol’ Carly’s song in that ketchup commercial…Heinz, I think…?

yup…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1R-ZIlHE6Q

18

Indeed. The good old days. Ofcourse Carly would know if these are the good old days.

RT

19

Oh, Richard, you’re so vein…I mean you’ve hit a vain on that last post. flirtysmile

20

Craig: unless it’s a bad bottle, there’s no chance that 96 Barton is close to peak.