What is the darkest side of wine?

[Paul_Luckin]

@Mark J. Boldizsar

@Alan eden

I don’t get this thread

Mark, you drink some of the most elitist wine possible then justify it with weird tastings of junk wines.

I don’t think most wine drinkers are elitist, I am fed up with society saying that because you like something good you are elitist.


Yes there are a few wine snobs but the are a very small minority and mostly they buy on price and name and not actual quality

Alan

You bring up some very good points, Alan. To me, “elitism” has nothing to do with which wines you buy or how much money you spend so long as you are buying wines that you truly enjoy drinking. What I find elitist, is letting a wine’s pedigree cloud the true quality of what is in the bottle. If you’re in a wine circle and happen to taste an underwhelming bottle of a big name GC Burg, do you really want to be the “jerk” who scores that mediocre bottle 85 points? From what I’ve seen, (this is a broad generalization) people are far more likely to deem the wine “flawed” instead of assigning a low score to it. Another thing I’ve noticed over the years is when you taste a wine blind amongst someone who brought the bottle, they are, on average, going to score that wine between 1-2 points higher than you. I have been tasting at least one bottle blind per week for the past four years. I’ve noticed this phenomenon countless times from both sides of the aisle. I apologize if I come off a bit brash, as this is a topic I can’t help but find fascinating.

[nodriftintended]

that’s part of the dark side. 85 points, if we’re going to stick to the semantics of the scale, is a wine that’s above average to very good. “mediocre” would be 79 or below.

[/nodriftintended]

[bmckenney]

Government control is a dark side of wine for me. State or provincial Liquor Board monopolies with archaic laws that restrict cross border and online shopping and shipping.

Another dark side is the insider boys club that keep secret lesser known wines to themselves. I don’t blame dislike the people that do this as I would likely do the same. I don’t like that the escalating prices of good wines make people take this approach. Case in point, there were some redacted wine names in a recent N Rhone thread.

[Anthony_Lombardi]

Mark- set your phone to video & go to a beer or spirit gathering & record yourself telling people that you apologize for looking down on them because you are primarily a wine drinker.

Jesus.

[rachel_mcdonald]

@Frank Drew

Excess, leading to potential health and financial concerns, as Rachel notes above.

Excess is a good way to put it, but for me it’s not just the excess, it’s how easily we justify our excessive behavior as being perfectly normal.

[KarlH]

How many bottles of wine do you drink a week?
I have a normal limit of three.

[Ed_Murray]

@rachel mcdonald

@Frank Drew

Excess, leading to potential health and financial concerns, as Rachel notes above.

Excess is a good way to put it, but for me it’s not just the excess, it’s how easily we justify our excessive behavior as being perfectly normal.

So excessive rationalization of excess?

[Ed_Murray]

@Mark J. Boldizsar

Recently, I posted a thread on the topic of wine as a means of personal fruit-bearing. While I think most of us would overwhelmingly agree that wine is a bearer of happiness (myself included), I have to admit, I feel there occasionally exists a far less attractive side to wine appreciation. Truth be told, the “darkness” of which I’m alluding to is one that I believe exists inside each and every one of us, whether we care to admit it or not. Simply put, the “darkness” upon which I am referring to is elitism; The idea that we are somehow above and removed from “lesser” wine, beer, or spirit drinkers. Now, there obviously are many different scenarios and gradations that come into play here, but I know I have seen my fair share of cliques and exclusivity in and around wine drinkers. As you read this, please remember that this is a broad generalization. My intent is neither to segregate, nor accuse any individuals or small groups. Please remember I am painting with broad strokes here. For you, this may be an inconsequential issue. On the contrary, it may be one you happen to agree with. Who knows. What I’m most interested in is your opinion on what you believe the darkest side of wine to be.

Which is it?

[Ian_Sutton]

Elitism/snobbery does exist and it shows a lack of class / respect. Equally in the real world there is plenty of reverse snobbery that suggests merely buying a glass of wine to have with a meal makes you a snob.

Drink what you enjoy - and at that simple level there is no snobbery or elitism.

[Bob_Hunnicutt]

Definitely the alcohol.
Someone needs to invent a pill that stops absorption at .05%

[maureen_nelson]

@Russell Faulkner

Since when was being elitist seen as being negative?

My thought exactly!

[ky1em1ttskus]

@Ian Sutton

Elitism/snobbery does exist and it shows a lack of class / respect. Equally in the real world there is plenty of reverse snobbery that suggests merely buying a glass of wine to have with a meal makes you a snob.

Drink what you enjoy - and at that simple level there is no snobbery or elitism.

Well said.

[Anton_D]

@Russell Faulkner

Since when was being elitist seen as being negative?

Elitist, but not pretentious!

Philatelists are stamp elitists, numismatists are coin elitists, gourmands are food elitists, we are wine “elitists”…it’s all good.

Totally a fun word to play with.

[CFu]

Something I feel no one ever talks about is debt.

I know quite a few people with massive Credit card debt from wine purchasing. I knew when I first started I bought way more wine than I could afford. Keeping up with the Joneses gets expensive and if you aren’t careful enough you might end up with some maxed out credit cards .

[M_Kelly]

@C Fu

Something I feel no one ever talks about is debt.

I know quite a few people with massive Credit card debt from wine purchasing. I knew when I first started I bought way more wine than I could afford. Keeping up with the Joneses gets expensive and if you aren’t careful enough you might end up with some maxed out credit cards .

Buying beyond one’s means is probably common with many luxury goods - a reflection of priorities in society today I am afraid. I’m not in any debt, but in retrospect I would prefer to have more in my retirement account than Domaine locker(s), so watch CC.

Similar, and related to the OP, is the idea that buying knowingly mispriced goods is sometimes celebrated.

[Mark_B]

@C Fu

Something I feel no one ever talks about is debt.

I know quite a few people with massive Credit card debt from wine purchasing. I knew when I first started I bought way more wine than I could afford. Keeping up with the Joneses gets expensive and if you aren’t careful enough you might end up with some maxed out credit cards .

But just think of all those credit card points!

[Rick.T]

@C Fu

Something I feel no one ever talks about is debt.

I know quite a few people with massive Credit card debt from wine purchasing. I knew when I first started I bought way more wine than I could afford. Keeping up with the Joneses gets expensive and if you aren’t careful enough you might end up with some maxed out credit cards .

Cha Ching. Spot on, I have a few friends who go too deep sometimes and their wives blame it on me. Oh well, life is too short to worry about the small things.

[Tran_Bronstein]

I have a very different perspective on this due to circumstances I have posted about on this board previously. Most of my life was as a teetotalling non-drinker due to living life with a prescription pill and alcohol addicted relative who finally and I would argue somewhat deservedly passed in 2010 after getting away with this behavior from their 20’s until age 65 and death.

At the same time coincidentally or perhaps not, I finally began to delve into wine and today am a healthy and happy mostly sweet wine drinker and collector. As such, there is no dark side to wine for me.

Because of the previous early negative exposure and connotations, everything that is being associated with the dark side by all the posters so far I have consciously and easily avoided. I don’t use credit to buy wine, if I can’t buy it now I exchange or wait until I can; I don’t overindulge or use it to sooth my pains physical and especially mental so I alcoholism is not an issue (Thank God); I support local wineries when I can get out to them and bypass the government monopoly to give profits directly to them.

Because of these conscious steps, I associate no negativity in my life with wine at all; only pleasure and joy. I’m happy to say that the point of the thread is somewhat moot to me and just thought I’d offer up that perspective. Of course there are negative aspects to anything that brings us joy in life if they are overdone to excess. Keep the reins in check and I see no reason why wine can’t bring a lifetime of joy. I wish I’d learned this 10-20 years ago but I guess it only happened now in my life because I was finally ready and willing for it to happen.

[rachel_mcdonald]

@Rick.T

Cha Ching. Spot on, I have a few friends who go too deep sometimes and their wives blame it on me. Oh well, life is too short to worry about the small things.

I got married in May and the first argument/disagreement my wife and I had was about how much money I spend on wine. Prior to being married she knew I spent a lot. After we got married and got a joint account and she could see exactly how much and, well, you know what happened then…

[Paul_Luckin]

@rachel mcdonald

@Rick.T

Cha Ching. Spot on, I have a few friends who go too deep sometimes and their wives blame it on me. Oh well, life is too short to worry about the small things.

I got married in May and the first argument/disagreement my wife and I had was about how much money I spend on wine. Prior to being married she knew I spent a lot. After we got married and got a joint account and she could see exactly how much and, well, you know what happened then…

you spent more?

[Joe_B]

Closet white zinfandel wine snobs.